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#11
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To the best of my knowledge, I'm pretty much alone (as a coach) in drawing this connection. Therefore don't pay too much attention to this. It's there, but it's definitely yet to be proven. Quote:
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#12
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I used to complete in exclusively fly events but knocked off that non-sense when I was a teenager. Now I am just an enthusiast and happy to practice for mastery and personal attainment of various sensory and speed benchmarks.
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD Level 3 USAT Coach USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass Steel City Endurance, LTD Fresh Freestyle |
#13
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Keep me posted, and thanks for giving it a try. Quote:
I really like the fact you could perform 500m at it. It could mean that it was more pleasant than difficult. I would like to better understand by beginning by a soft catch/pull? |
#14
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![]() [quote=CharlesCouturier;
Interesting data here.. I really like the fact you could perform 500m at it. It could mean that it was more pleasant than difficult. I would like to better understand by beginning by a soft catch/pull?[/QUOTE] My apologies Charles. I am actually embarrassed as I morphed into describing my full stroke when I was intending to outline the way I was doing the NAD. Can the specter of dementia be far away ? :0) actually not so :0) I think I will delete the post and when the trauma subsides I will repost in a rational format. My apologies to the forum.
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May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose. Grant |
#15
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![]() I tried to delete the post but it would not allow me.
In the interest of damage control. Ignore "I began a soft/catch pull" as that was in relation to the full stroke. Also the stuff about above water arm recovery is to be ignored. Thank you people for your tolerance.
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May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose. Grant |
#16
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![]() Charles,
Take a look at these clips of swedish flyer, Ida Marko-Varga. She uses a fly that her coach refers to as "gliding fly" I use to be a 200 flyer, until I quit training for the event. I have made several attempts over the years of becoming a flyer again, but my back/shoulders just wouldn't take the training anymore. One day, a friend of mine showed me these clips. None of us have the same range of movement that Varga has, but we have been able to build-up our swimming distance. I have only recently started using this approach but can already tell a difference in how my fly feels. A few of my friends have used this style in competition. Each one of them have been dropping time in both the long course and short course flys. In the 200, a swimmer gives up a little of the early speed but makes-up for it on the back end because they aren't as tired. I have started to hold 25 and 50 fly times as fast as when I would attempt a more conventional fly. I would like to read your thoughts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIreWiqUnSM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34_JRmnshC8 |
#17
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![]() Hey! First I'm glad you still have this passion for fly burning.
Your question could trigger one heck of a strange answer. First, as a direct response to your question, ie is this drill a good one to work on, I think Michael Phelps answered that question on several occasion. He feeds (or used to feed) on it. For that matter, any drill which involves some level of glide will always be beneficial for learning to better streamline, which in turns could mean going for longer distance at same energy costs. That said, some drills tend to have side effects. My own field of research for fly goes in a totally opposite (you can not find more opposite than that in fact) direction as that which is proposed by your clips. But that doesn't mean any of us is wrong. We just target very different portion of the stroke. My own field is a quest for learning to dynamically balance the stroke in such a way that during the execution, you no longer feel any effort. And along this process, I do insist a lot on cutting any dead spot in the pulling mechanism. This is 100% sure. Most of my time as fly teacher is spent synchronizing the second kick with the end of the pulling. This is a crucial aspect for me. And so I have mixed feelings looking at your clip, because it definitely insist on the opposite. The model in this clip clearly kicks way way before the hands exit. Since I know how hard it is to time the stroke correctly, once your whole mechanics is built otherwise, I tend to be careful. Like I said earlier, some drill can have negative side effects. But, and I insist here. The author of these clips do claim that a female swimmer could have improved as a result of working on this drill. And I do agree. Phelps did rely on that a lot, and it's easy to believe. Is this thing can make you faster at Fly? Sure. It does target distance per stroke. I do lack on that side so someday, it was on my agenda to target this drill. I swim 11strokes in racing, I'd like to cut it down to 10. My tempo trainer could be set to 108 during a 50m flat out, and I wouldn't miss a beep. But that doesn't bring me under 30s for 50m, and I need to go down under. So this drill is a good candidate to help me developing DPS. I also believe you when you mention that you even adopted this as your main full stroke, and that it was beneficial. I just can't help to find it sad for a few reasons, but it is a good way of swimming the fly, not my way but it's a logical way. Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 08-13-2012 at 03:14 AM. |
#18
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![]() If you'd like to better understand my way, here's a very simple drill...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLyfwqJgUTw Vertical butterfly. No leg kick, you could tie your legs together and the drill would still work, if you do it correctly. Goal. Finding total comfort zero effort. If you flip the arms for more than 2-3minutes, and still find it extremely easy, then you got it. How to do it. Play, it's a game. Flip the arm as shown on the clip, with the intent of having your head that goes in and out the water. Limit the amplitude though. Worthless to take your head too high. Often, just moving your face in and out the water is enough. Your body should not be bouncing up and down too much. The goal is to get immediate purchase on the water with your hands upon entry. If you take a catch immediately, you will limit the body sinkage, and will endup on balance throughout the execution. Then, with no leg kick at all, you'll just perform what may seem to be impossible, perpetual fly arm pulls with no effort whatsoever. My goal is to teach the fly in a way that you learn to feel this, but whilst swimming the full stroke. It's it's really in total opposite direction, in term of research, as what your clip proposes. Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 08-13-2012 at 03:49 AM. |
#19
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![]() Hi Charles
Is your vertical drill intended to be done with feet pushing off the bottom or with feet hanging loose in the water? |
#20
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The model on the clip only received a 5min training on how to perform this drill. It was her first contact with it, and she's not a fly swimmer (she's a triathlete). There remained a bit of a body undulation during her execution, but it does not contribute to helping her performing the drill. She did that by habit. This drill is easy to do with your feet hanging loose. |
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