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  #1  
Old 10-08-2010
alexnharvey alexnharvey is offline
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alexnharvey
Default Body rotation and Offering Advice to other swimmers

Short time lurker, recent TI adopter, first time poster.


Whilst practicing my stroke last night two other swimmers entered the next lane beside me. The more experienced was coaching the less so at freestyle, but they seemed friends rather than real coach and pupil. The experienced swimmer was reasonably quick up the pool, but not too elegant or technically adept (arms swing around away from body laterally and back like fly rather than up and back in). Probably quite a bit faster than me though :).

The 'pupil' asked the 'coach', "what about body roll or rotation?"

And the response was "try not to roll at all but keep your body rigid and flat" ?!

This seemed to me totally antithetical to any theory of freestyle I had ever encountered, not just the TI method. Body rotation being to my mind the fundamental part of freestyle, for ease of breathing and recovery, generation of power etc.

I was moved to say something to the 'coach', but decided against it. I did not want to interfere and seem like a jerk, but on reflection later I really felt I should've asked something about his method rather than saying nothing, possibly whilst the pupil was doing a set, because his advice was so fundamentally wrong.

Would you have said anything? How would you have approached it?

If you have offered such opinions in the past what has been the outcome?
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2010
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
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It would have been interesting if the pupil had asked: 'Why swim flat?'
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2010
borate borate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexnharvey View Post

The 'pupil' asked the 'coach', "what about body roll or rotation?"

And the response was "try not to roll at all but keep your body rigid and flat" ?!
Would you have said anything? How would you have approached it?

If you have offered such opinions in the past what has been the outcome?
Unsolicited advice often isn't appreciated, and the 'teacher' might have been embarrassed.

Still, it could have been enlightening to ask the genesis of the "flat" recommendation, and perhaps proffer your experience - in a lighthearted, friendly manner.

Last edited by borate : 10-08-2010 at 09:09 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2010
Rincewind Rincewind is offline
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He probably still rolls, but just doesnt realize it. Its impossible to swim freestyle with no roll at all.

If you are completely flat your shoulders will never clear the water which means you would have to have one hell of a shoulder flexibility to do above water recovery.

So if I wanted to be helpful in a tactful way I would've said something like;

"Can I suggest you let the other guy watch you swim underwater to see what the correct body position should be?".
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2010
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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There is an age old saying which applies in such instances, "Lead by example". Offering advice in an unsolicited way is not a wise choice, if as you say someone is trying to coach at the moment.

I can't count the times since starting TI I have wanted to offer advice to others. With the passing of time and hopefully my stroke getting better others are asking for information as to what I am doing. I will always share that which I have been given by others when asked and or the time is appropriate.

Be Well and Swim Silent
Westy

Last edited by westyswoods : 10-08-2010 at 10:28 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2010
daveblt daveblt is offline
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If I were to ask that coach a question it would have been , If I keep my body flat and rigid then where is my propulsion going to come from ,JUST from my arms and legs ? ... I think not.
Swim with your body not your arms and legs .

Dave
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2010
splashingpat splashingpat is offline
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splashingpat
Default people just look at ya FUNNY IF U DO! I KNOW! THANKS WESTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by westyswoods View Post


There is an age old saying which applies in such instances,

"Lead by example". Offering advice in an unsolicited way is not a wise choice,
if as you say
someone is trying to coach at the moment.

I can't
count the times since starting TI I have wanted to offer advice to others. With the passing of time
and
hopefully my stroke getting better others are asking for information as to what I am doing.

I will always share that which I have been given by others
when asked and or
the time is appropriate.

Be Well
and
Swim Silent
Westy
Swim Well
and
Be Silent

Last edited by splashingpat : 10-09-2010 at 03:24 PM. Reason: Yeahed it instead of keepN it all 2 myself! whisper or don't say a word
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2010
Alex-SG Alex-SG is offline
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Another possibility is that the guy was over-rotating. Telling him to try not to rotate at all could be a way to fix it.

I personally still over-rotate even while trying to swim flat (according to the video). ALEX
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2010
terry terry is offline
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I seldom offer unsolicited advice. Once when I did so - though my advisee was a former college teammate who seemed interested in improving in his 50s - I later received an email from him in which he called me an arrogant jerk.

Oops.

However, in this instance, had I felt moved to speak up, I probably would simply ask an open-ended question, as if feeling earnestly curious myself.

Such as "I apologize for intruding, but I overheard your advice to your friend, and thought I might experiment with that myself. Can you explain more about why it's best to avoid rolling?"
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Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2010
splashingpat splashingpat is offline
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splashingpat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry;13811
I seldom offer unsolicited advice.
Once when I did so - though my advisee was a former college teammate who seemed interested in improving in his 50s - I later received an email from him in which he called me an arrogant jerk.

Oops.

However, in this instance, had I felt moved to speak up,
I probably would simply ask an open-ended question,
as if feeling earnestly curious myself.

Such as "I apologize for intruding, but I overheard your advice to your friend, and thought I might experiment with that myself.
Can you explain more about why it's best to avoid rolling?"


Personally I think It impolite to question! but I am still learnN . .
I am going to swim well & be very silent.
It will be hard work for me but I should be able to take on a challenge!

usually I feel ignored but I do n't care anymore
it is probable coming from an arrogant jerk that does n't feel
I have two cents to offer!


Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Last edited by splashingpat : 10-11-2010 at 01:49 AM. Reason: worKNonwhatbeingquietisabout!illgetthere!
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