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  #21  
Old 04-14-2017
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Salvo,

you should know the links, dont't you. ;-)

Best regards,
Werner
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  #22  
Old 04-14-2017
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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Oh, I see, I had skipped those videos because I don't understand German :)

Thanks,
Salvo

PS: by the way I didn't know you also post on The Swim Forum :)
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  #23  
Old 04-14-2017
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
How do I distinguish these " unnecessary movements" from unavoidable movements due to poor balance, but covered up in the hurry of a brisker tempo?

My understanding was that a central benefit of doing stupid slow tempo swimming is to unmask those imbalances and to learn to correct them intrinsically, with improved core stability, rather than to keep on compensating with non propulsive limb movements.
Hi sclim,

Coach Werner answered succinctly. Slower tempos do highlight balance issues, i.e. low side arm sculling/pulling for stability, over-rotation, leg-splay, etc. But once swimmer has a good sense of balance often little movements will creep in triggered by instability too, excessive knew bend or kick from knee, flipping hand over hip at exit and other interesting and unconscious moves which eat up time preventing you from hitting faster tempos while maintaining core stability/balance. When you do swim at tempos that are faster than skill level or just outside comfort zone, those added movements are minimized and not necessarily masked. Terry wrote a blog recently swimming at fast tempos helped him trim up his kick, knees didn't have the time to bend as much.

In any case a swimmer should experiment with many tempo ranges, from very slow to very fast, well outside the comfort zone, even if that means popping out of the green zone briefly. This helps identify and become aware of added movements to stabilize the body (at slower tempo), and help clean up added movements that prevent a swimmer stroking at faster tempos, tempos they are probably capable of.

"Effective practice is consistent, intensely focused and targets content or weaknesses that lie at the edge of one's current abilities"

Frequently experiment outside "the zone" of comfort and enjoy the journey of continuous improvement :-)

Stuart
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  #24  
Old 04-14-2017
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Salvo,

Quote:
PS: by the way I didn't know you also post on The Swim Forum :)
No I don't. Reading and understanding the read is not an issue for me, but writing what I think and mean turns out as real barrier. So it's far enough for me to throw in some words one and then here in the TI-Forums.

But was invited when I didn't know about this (new?) forum, so I'll have a reading look into sometimes...

Best regards,
Werner
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  #25  
Old 04-14-2017
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello sclim,


Think Stuart will write a more detailed answer. Every movement not in straight relaxed recovery, drifting forceless to catch or pressing straight backward, or supporting your rotation and stretch-long are unnecessary. (Except you're swimming special drills to learn something else). Most times such movements are "bad habits" from former times to mask balance issues. And if you feel/see it's difficult to avoid them, there will be some rest of balance to improve...

Do this in (for you ridiculous) slow SR. It's not necessary that going to (stupid) slow SRs will unmask the same "unnecessary" movements you found in your all out. May be it will be some work to find your "critical SR of appearance". Well, then you might did get some additional balance-work. But first focus in, avoid your "unnecessary" movements. Pivot point will be the SR when they'll appear first and analyzing what does trigger them. If success in avoiding them go to faster SRs, but do it slowly in hundredth steps. If you think: "Ah, I've got it"... one lap slow, one lap fluid, one lap brisk, one lap all out, they'll sneak in without being felt...

After all, think these "stupid" slow SRs aren't as stupid... :-)

Best regards,
Werner
Haha, nice comments Werner. You have a lot of wisdom in there for me to unpack. But I think I really get what you're saying; and I'll continue to see it better as I carefully go through the process you prescribe.
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  #26  
Old 04-14-2017
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi sclim,

Coach Werner answered succinctly. Slower tempos do highlight balance issues, i.e. low side arm sculling/pulling for stability, over-rotation, leg-splay, etc. But once swimmer has a good sense of balance often little movements will creep in triggered by instability too, excessive knew bend or kick from knee, flipping hand over hip at exit and other interesting and unconscious moves which eat up time preventing you from hitting faster tempos while maintaining core stability/balance. When you do swim at tempos that are faster than skill level or just outside comfort zone, those added movements are minimized and not necessarily masked. Terry wrote a blog recently swimming at fast tempos helped him trim up his kick, knees didn't have the time to bend as much.

In any case a swimmer should experiment with many tempo ranges, from very slow to very fast, well outside the comfort zone, even if that means popping out of the green zone briefly. This helps identify and become aware of added movements to stabilize the body (at slower tempo), and help clean up added movements that prevent a swimmer stroking at faster tempos, tempos they are probably capable of.

"Effective practice is consistent, intensely focused and targets content or weaknesses that lie at the edge of one's current abilities"

Frequently experiment outside "the zone" of comfort and enjoy the journey of continuous improvement :-)

Stuart
Wow, a lot of work ahead of me, in directions that were not obvious to me before you pointed them out. Thanks both Werner and Stuart!
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  #27  
Old 04-18-2017
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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this article belongs in this thread

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/G...Form_3273.html
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  #28  
Old 04-19-2017
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
this article belongs in this thread

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/G...Form_3273.html
What a great article -- sums up nicely what I've only recently come to understand in slowly accumulated fragments of insight as I struggle through technique issues in swimming and biking. Nice to know, in retrospect, that I have really good running technique (I did a treadmill VO2max and metabolic test yesterday). But, also in retrospect, those running technique points, natural though they seem to me now, did not actually come naturally -- I really worked consciously to develop and refine them, although I tend to forget that nowadays, when they seem so easy and natural to do. All the more reason to feel confident that continuing effort applied consistently now in applying good form to my slow swimming in practice will eventually pay off.

Where do you find all these things ZT??
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  #29  
Old 04-19-2017
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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I hope cognitive dissonance didnt mask the part that pointed out that it also takes blood sweat tears and going beyond imaginative aquired good technique....:-)
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