shinji 9 stroke very helpfull thanx!

[subway2]

Originally Posted by CoachShinji

He is a masters swimmer and has been raced for a couple of years.

His swim video(recorded in 08/2008)

He used to swim with tensed arms and make splash and bubbles so much.
Now he can swim with grace and speed. He races butterfly, too.

He is so graceful while swimming. Wonderful.
I like his style. Congragulations.

But, If you look at the underwater video at 00:37 sec, you can see that his head is moving up and down with every stroke. His laser beam changes.

It is perfect anyway. I wish I could do the same.

[lloyddinma]

Originally Posted by CoachShinji

You are absolutely right, Richard. I found most people tried to push the water with their palms up and elbows extended, and it caused difficulty of leading their elbows during recovery.

So the objective of this method is to shorten recovery time. In detail, the time until your elbow reaches an extended line from your shoulder. If you can shorten the time, you can spend more time at the switch point to get more propulsion. That is why many people can swim with fewer strokes.

Is my English understandable? I do not think I can understand it. I will post more videos about this topic later.

Sorry to resurrect dead dogs. But this thread is a goldmine. Can anyone please clarify the second paragraph at least ?

[Richardsk]

I hesitate to interpret on behalf of Shinji, but if I understand correctly he means that the last part of the underwater arm action should be short and fast and that the hand should exit as soon as possible after the elbow, but the elbow should lead the recovery. Terry's point of view, if i understand correctly, is that the swimmer's intention should be focused on the recovery rather than the so-called pull. which traditionally, at least since the time of Johnny Weissmueller, was regarded as consisting of first a pulling action and then a pushing action, with some favouring a flick of the hand at the end of the push phase. This may be what Shinji refers to as the 'snap'. Spending a few minutes every day looking at Shinji swim and trying to imagine yourself swimming like that is probably a worthwhile effort.

[lloyddinma]

Originally Posted by Richardsk

. This may be what Shinji refers to as the 'snap'. Spending a few minutes every day looking at Shinji swim and trying to imagine yourself swimming like that is probably a worthwhile effort.

Thanks Richardsk ...

I do look at his videos (a little too often). What I still don't comprehend is how that the underwater finish translates into fewer strokes. If you shorten the recovery length like he is stating then consequently you will have a higher stroke rate from faster recovery side of the cycle.

There must be something I am missing.

I know that the "snap" makes for a more seamless and efficient stroke.

[Zenturtle]

I was surprised reading that Shinji uses forcefull short pushes so much in the underwaterpart.
Its difficult to really see it in his stroke.
But every extra push makes you move forward a bit more, so its logical that it adds a bit to his DPS.
A fast recovery (and he does recover faster then Terry) doesnt have to be followed by a fast catch, its just bringing the arm over faster to release it to the water earlier again into forward glide.

[lloyddinma]

Originally Posted by Zenturtle

I was surprised reading that Shinji uses forcefull short pushes so much in the underwaterpart.
Its difficult to really see it in his stroke.
But every extra push makes you move forward a bit more, so its logical that it adds a bit to his DPS.
A fast recovery (and he does recover faster then Terry) doesnt have to be followed by a fast catch, its just bringing the arm over faster to release it to the water earlier again into forward glide.

When you say "pushes" do you mean pulls?

I know in his "under-water" finish video, he labels an acceleration phase in the info feed. Is that what you are referring to?


I get what you are saying about faster recovery and slower catch. There is even a recent thread by Tom P speaking along those lines. But what I mean here is that it would seem that with a faster recovery, you are right back to the catch phase in less time. Unless you are saying that his catch is slower than it normally would be. But then he has faster "pushes," like you read.


Btw I tried the "accerleration" in the last few minutes of my swim this morning. I noticed the water texture felt thicker.

[Zenturtle]

his stroke looks smooth, but at the same time he is speaking of relatively powerful short, almost pulsing underwater pressure.
At he front its called a pull after the shoulder its called a push.
The finish snap is a push.
If your arm is a fraction earlier back in the water at the front you can use that extra time to just keep it there in extended position a little longer and start your catch movement a little later, or actively move gradual to your catch position in that extra time so you get a smoother transition to catch.
I think the last option is better.

[novaswimmer]

After having seen Shinji doing a glide most of the way across the pool in another video with no kicking (!), I think one would have to admit that he has been endowed with a body-type of excellent buoyancy — and probably more importantly — of unusual balance in the water. I'm not saying he did not have to work on improving it (using fine core muscle control or whatever), but what he had to work with from the start was excellent. We have to admit that some people (professional swimmers, for example) are endowed with unique body types.

Proper horizontal body balance — exemplified by Shinji — shows just how important its contribution is to an ease in effort, and to a streamlined shape in the water. The more streamlined the body, the more effective and efficient the pull will be, requiring less effort and less oxygen consumption.

The divergence between the locations of the centers of gravity and buoyancy (flotation) presents a problem for most humans — and usually moreso in men than women. It can be overcome to some degree with technique and awareness. But this divergence is different in every one of us.

I guess, all I'm trying to say is that if one aspires to 'Swimming like Shinji', one may just have to be 'built like Shinji'. Not a cop-out, but just an observation.

[lloyddinma]

Originally Posted by novaswimmer

The divergence between the locations of the centers of gravity and buoyancy (flotation) presents a problem for most humans — and usually moreso in men than women. It can be overcome to some degree with technique and awareness. But this divergence is different in every one of us.

I guess, all I'm trying to say is that if one aspires to 'Swimming like Shinji', one may just have to be 'built like Shinji'. Not a cop-out, but just an observation.

Zenturtle, your explanation really clarifies things wrt to pushes and pulls. If you have the link on that article you read, please feel free to share it.


NovaSwimmer: It is a candid observation. I am with you 100%. But everyone can swim well eventually and I think everyone might have a unique advantage of some sort.

But he also has trained and does train excessively. Your observation really ties into my response on ZT's comment. You can't see in his video that he pulls intensely.

Understandably, there is also some editing to many videos not just within TI or even swimming in general. Having watched the graceful video so many times, I eventually noticed he does not breath for quite a few strokes down and then when he gets to near-end, he seems to compensate. I wonder the span of distance he can sustain those intense pulls without fatigue setting in or if he just swims that way for the videos.


The downside of the promotional component is the pitfall of the viewer being on themselves when you err, while the upside is that they do motivate one to aspire and ultimately improve. You get the picture and keep things in perspective.

I have never seen a TI swimmer in real life!

[tiswimjapan]

There are many kinds of skills to swim like me. Many people acquired those kinds of skills, and they can swim like me.
https://youtu.be/Ke5p7DC0kDg