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  #51  
Old 04-26-2013
Rincewind Rincewind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
I made an edit, and I apologies obviously.
I don't really care nor am I offended in anyway, you have the right to speak your mind.

But I read a bit more of this thread and found this:

1. Walk normally, like most human do for a whilst
2. Purposely shorten the stride length at the front. In other words, when you walk normally, say you pose the foot 2 feet in front of you, gradually make this 2 feet shorter. Very gradually.
3. The steps will become shorter and shorter
4. At one point, you will look and feel strange. Steps will be too short
5. Raise your hands in running position at that point, and start leaning forward (very gently, you know how little we actually need to lean)
6. At that time, you're in Jog position, steps are so short that your posing the feet straight under your body. You will feel the *urge* to start jogging
7. Do start jogging. And you'll feel exceptionally well. Technique will be perfect
8. Jog for a whilst then slow down, progressively, back to normal human walking

I mean seriously?? 'walk like most humans do', 'Jog position' ???

Who is this intended for? Surely not the 2000 Olympic tri athletes??

Sorry to be a jerker or crawler, but this really does make me laugh.
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  #52  
Old 04-26-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Glad then, laughing is a good thing. This drill is free of charge by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Who is this intended for? Surely not the 2000 Olympic tri athletes??
In short, yes.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 04-26-2013 at 10:50 PM.
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  #53  
Old 04-27-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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One of the task, or I should say privilege of the head coach is to draw season wide general guidelines. In fact, this is something I really dig. Since it's inline with the topic initiated by Danny, I thought I would share with you what our running program's been for 2012/2013.

First, season 2011/2012. The theme from start to end of the off season was to tackle on improving vo2max. Methodology was then to accomplish most of the program on a 200m running track. Pose running was taught, as it had been referred to me by this coach who happens to be pretty much the best I know here north of the border, and again one of the rare having developed Top-20 finisher on the Olympic Marathon. I studied his arguments, had a live chat over the phone, compared his arguments with literature on the topic. I then tried a bit of it myself, and decided it was worth being researched upon.

You guys have to understand that a University is, at least here north of the border, the ultimate place for sports development. We have both the facilities, the highly knowledgeable teachers and coaches who works hand in hand. One of my athlete is a phd in kinesiology, happens to be a triathlete, runs in my clinics. Another one is a phd in exercise physiology, who later migrated to ultra small living being physiology, etc...

So I sometimes have chat with you guys, who don't really run (or very little I'm assuming), and when I am not chatting with you, I'm chatting with them. With the running coach, with other athletes and students that compose a community made of 60k people. Our hockey team won the Nationals this year. I share the deck (pool) with a coach that has 2 Olympic rings in his fingers.

Back to the program. Season 2011-2012 is a success. With less than 30 athletes we finish 5th state wide, at our first official season, several podiums etc, our folks do well, compete a lot.... But we finish the season with an uncomfortable level of running based injuries.

It's my privilege again to take season wide decision, and the one I took for 2012-2013 was not negociable:

Everyone now has to cure their injuries, and we need to reach early May in perfect health. No hard work off season, no more vo2max work. We'll squeeze this early season (we begin on May 1th). Much more weight on Pose, more time spent to it. More video, more drills.

Purpose: Finding the balance between back and front of the foot landing.

Now, and this has to be the most important thing here: It's the purpose that interests me, Pose is just a nicely done package that teaches values to allow me to reach this goal, which is anything but laughable. Marketing crap and other low level considerations that seem to obsess you guys, are left out of this process thus far.

RPR is an enthusiatic, 200pounder, age grouper, that started to run with me in 2011. He has a very busy life, plays ice hockey, father, business owner, in his 40ties, likes to eat, likes to drink, is very heavy, and used to be injured (foot and achiles, + 1 knee).

He followed the class, off season, and did these stupid laughable things, exactly described as posted here. Couldn't run more than 2hour per week for the whole season. Shortly before Boston, we managed 35k per week at best, + tons of cycling in Mallorca. Came back from Mallorca, shows up at Boston and runs 3:06. No pain, but great gains.

Is this laughable? I don't think so. This is what I believe in, this is what I teach, and I'm having success with it. I'm helping people optimizing both pleasure and performance. We reached our mid season goal. The majority of our athletes are in perfect shape, and perfect help. Instead of showing up in Mai with a few niggles that we would carry throughout the season, we're eager to work hard and race. I'll be more than happy to come back in September to tell you that it translated into great performances.

You know understand better, having a better taste of the dynamics of coaching (both planning then living with the results), in a University. Your marketing crap obsession has no place in my mind, and if it fills your with doubt (referring to all these nasty oil seller that try to steal money from your pocket), it's your problem.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 04-27-2013 at 01:02 AM.
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  #54  
Old 04-27-2013
Rincewind Rincewind is offline
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I've been running my whole life, anything from 800m to ultra marathons. I think there was one year when I ran 10 standards and 2 ultras + countless halves and 10ks, I think I was running a race every 2 weeks or so.

Having a coach that registers your progress and comes up with training plans would be great.

But I know how to run. Romanov was never even a runner himself, he was a high-jumper. And he was educated in Soviet Russia, which I happen to know a lot about since I am also originally from there. Soviet sports academies were big on theory but unfortunately not so big on practice, they had national level coaches who never even played the sport they coach...

So yes to me the whole thing looks like a marketing scam. Some slick western enterprenuer spotted an ex-soviet sporting personality and decided to use sensationalism to sell a product to gullible public =) Gave it a brand name and here we have it.

Feel free to forward this to the relevant people in your organization, maybe they can use my input to revise your marketing strategies and make this product appear more appealing to people like myself.

But the way its presented right now, I see it and I laugh, I cant imagine what benefit it would be to me as a runner.
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  #55  
Old 04-27-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
I've been running my whole life...

I cant imagine what benefit it would be to me as a runner.

Rincewind,

Can you see the benefit it might have for someone who wasn't athletic in school and at 45 wants to start running, overweight, under confident and without any condition. There is a charity 10K run at work in 12 weeks and they want to enter.

I see that they have 3 options, not run because they can't, start training without looking at any material and have a very high risk of giving up or getting injured, or 3, take a steady informed approach from a program designed to help non runners run that's available in an easy to obtain format (video or book).

Pose and Chi running can't help someone whose been running their whole life and already think they have nothing to learn about how to run very well (and probably do from your posts).

but elite athletes such as those Charles looks after, need to look at it differently and come at it from the perspective of marginal gains. That is, if researching the principles of pose running can give them only a 5% less chance of picking up a winter injury then its a good investment as running is their life and they have time to explore new opinions.



Swim2bfree asked me if TI was helping my swimming last night as I've not improved my times particularly in the last 18 months.

TI took me from someone who could gasp through 25m of freestyle on Feb 1st 2011 to swimming a sub 30 minute mile in a national event on 2nd July 2011, that's a fact.

The support, interaction and genuine passion for swimming from Terry, Suzanne and the regular posters on this site has kept me interested in swimming 5 times a week for the past two years.

When I joined our local choir, the choir director's methods were a little dated and there was a lot of his vocal technique I didn't think was relevant but every now and again he would give us a warm up exercise that either solved a problem or showed me something I didn't know. That's how I got value from my membership.


You can buy the Chi running method for $11 on amazon, and my approach if I was an experienced runner would be to find the one thing in the book that I hadn't thought of that gave me an $11 value or more. 99% of the material can be personally irrelevant to you but the other 1% could be worth more than you imagined?

http://www.amazon.com/ChiRunning-Rev...s=pose+running
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  #56  
Old 04-27-2013
DD_l_enclume DD_l_enclume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
I am sorry, but all those Chi and Pose running people just make me laugh.

Running is so natural, our bodies are basically designed for it.

Being into ultra, I guess you read *THE* bible (Born To Run).

The author did not run at the begining, only a few miles. And did not enjoy it.
He was taught how to run (and enjoy it) and actually made an ultra in the Copper Canyon by the end of the book.

The book does support the Theory that we are design for running. (hmm, not design, which implies all this religious s..t, but *evolved* into running).

But we're losing that ability with our diet, lifestyle, and shoes (cushionned and motion control shoes which started with Nike in the 70's which change our stride to an unnatural one)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Thats like trying to teach people how to breath...

I'm actually learning to breath, and paying for it.
Funny isn't it?

I started Yoga 2 years ago. I learned how breathing is important. Not just to stand on one toe and having the other leg behind your neck, but also in every day life. For me it's just starting to help me cope with situation where I would need an external help (pills, weed or booze).

And I'm just starting the journey.

I'm also just starting to learn walking.
Funny, right ?
I stopped hiking a few years ago because I got bored (and had a bit of pain in the knee).
I started going barefoot a few weeks ago. Now I can't wait to get to the following sunday to remove my shoes and hike in the hills around.
I don't know if I look different, but inside me I'm really learning to walk.
And I'll soon pay for it by buying a pair of Vibram.
What a fool !

I have many other natural things on my TODO list I want to re-relearn.
The next one will be eating (What is more natural ??)
And then probably the most difficult one for me, "Thinking" : controling the mind through the use of meditation.


For me all this *natural* things are not natural anymore because we don't live in a natural environment. So I do feel the need to learn these natural things, and I'm ready to pay for it.


Not yet as a lenghty as a post by Charles, but a good start ! :-)
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  #57  
Old 04-27-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
I've been running my whole life, anything from 800m to ultra marathons. I think there was one year when I ran 10 standards and 2 ultras + countless halves and 10ks, I think I was running a race every 2 weeks or so.
Funny enough, this coach that recommended that I make room in my program for Pose Running, also happens to be a former record holder over 100k.

In 1979 (area during which he was training to compete) he ran 6h36m57s, which is worth 3:58/km. That record held the road for a long long while. It was a North American Record, not just a Canadian one (No US citizen could beat this for a long while). It was also, at the time, the international best performance over the distance, and the 6th best performance ever world wide.

I believe that this record held the road until 1991, when it was beaten by another Canadian. In 2000, Dan Held from WI lowered this mark.

Here, I just learned this morning that he published a book lately. That's the guy:

http://www.ccp.sas.ulaval.ca/info/entraineur.html
http://www.kmag.ca/produits/livres-guides-course.aspx

You may continue to laugh at us, but for some, the pursuit of excellence has just no finish line. Always try to find ways to go longer/faster. Rich is one of these guys.

He generally answers his emails by the way, so you may tell this Emeritus coach/teacher who's spent his whole life to the pursuit of excellence in his sport, who has dominated the north american ultra distance scene, who has produced top20 finisher at Olympic Marathon (in two consecutive editions), you may tell him directly that his coaching techniques/recommendations are laughable...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janos View Post
Web crawlers? I thought it was the other way around. Free thinking people must try and avoid an internet full of snake oil salesmen to get to the truth. I am with you Rincewind.
No comment..

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 04-27-2013 at 05:19 PM.
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  #58  
Old 04-27-2013
wie wie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD_l_enclume View Post
I have many other natural things on my TODO list I want to re-relearn.
The next one will be eating (What is more natural ??)
Now that's interesting!
Tell me more about it.
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  #59  
Old 04-27-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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There's a new trend to this.

Pals of mine created a company/system for helping people with basic posture / overall conditioning.

It's not yoga, it's not pilates, it's really their thing their system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvrr1ZEbElE

In other words, and I quote, they're teaching people how to walk, stand up, sit down, etc (that's for Stages 1 to 3):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC8wsiLh66I

Stage IV I believe is an important destination. When you reach this stage, you can virtually train effectively anywhere, not just in a gym. Could be in the wood at your country place. Where most people see landscape, you see playground. Quite frankly, I find all this absolutely fascinating. Imagine you finish a little 30-45min run, then play in some of your fav playgrounds for 20-30min, got the job done, all round zen but productive training, outdoor, in nature. 10-15min of Tai Chi maybe? Or a short swim in the lake? New face of sports, beautiful!!!

I truly wish they get known worldwide. They've been in business for several years now already:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi-u2idG9oQ


Something that some of our audience on here will probably be laughing at. But I guess that even Pilates was laughed at when it first came out..

So there's indeed a strong trend toward working on posture. Our Football team is doing Pilates (though none of the guy yields it out loud lol), Posture has become the number 1 thing in Swimming. I came to the conclusion that it was crucial in running as well, for max volumes/performances to be achieved, etchetera etchetera...

http://www.aekuus.com/en/physical_conditioning.php

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 04-27-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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  #60  
Old 04-27-2013
Rincewind Rincewind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Funny enough, this coach that recommended that I make room in my program for Pose Running, also happens to be a former record holder over 100k.

In 1979 (area during which he was training to compete) he ran 6h36m57s, which is worth 3:58/km. That record held the road for a long long while. It was a North American Record, not just a Canadian one (No US citizen could beat this for a long while). It was also, at the time, the international best performance over the distance, and the 6th best performance ever world wide.

I believe that this record held the road until 1991, when it was beaten by another Canadian. In 2000, Dan Held from WI lowered this mark.

Here, I just learned this morning that he published a book lately. That's the guy:

http://www.ccp.sas.ulaval.ca/info/entraineur.html
http://www.kmag.ca/produits/livres-guides-course.aspx

You may continue to laugh at us, but for some, the pursuit of excellence has just no finish line. Always try to find ways to go longer/faster. Rich is one of these guys.

He generally answers his emails by the way, so you may tell this Emeritus coach/teacher who's spent his whole life to the pursuit of excellence in his sport, who has dominated the north american ultra distance scene, who has produced top20 finisher at Olympic Marathon (in two consecutive editions), you may tell him directly that his coaching techniques/recommendations are laughable...
If we are on a topic of following running personalities, I've been watching this guy lately:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Vo2maxPr.../videos?view=0

Sage Canaday, 2:16 marathoner, two time Olympic marathon trials qualifier. Now turned into professional ultra runner.

Now, compare Sage's channel with Pose channel here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/posetv/videos?view=0

Thats the difference that I am talking about. Sage's channel I watch with pleasure and respect, ready to learn from what he is saying. Pose makes me laugh.

Here he mentions Chi running, but once again its not some miracle cure package, just obvious common sense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRkeBVMQSgg

here is another good form video from his channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAiAvupFT6g

Last edited by Rincewind : 04-27-2013 at 06:34 PM.
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