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  #11  
Old 02-01-2013
rcrawf rcrawf is offline
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Swam for ten minutes or so with TT at my usual 1.1 setting and 14-15 spl 25 yd pool, height 5'8" 140 lbs 2 bt kick, latest focal point knuckle drags with relaxed recovery. Then set the TT to .75 the sound was a lot faster than I imagined. Took off with a 3 beep push off, kept my arms relaxed, with knuckle drags, no breaths, got to the end stayed relaxed wasn't too winded. So I did 3 or so more laps stopping in between, still felt relaxed and counted 19 spl for last lap. I never look at the clock but I figured out at home that that was a 16.5 sec lap including 3 beep push off. I had never tried anything faster than 1 on the TT, it felt quite exhilarating, especially the feeling of the water pushing up the hips. I'm wondering if 18 spl is a realistic goal, staying relaxed at the .75 tempo? But for 1500 meters? Dream on.
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Last edited by rcrawf : 02-02-2013 at 11:28 AM.
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  #12  
Old 02-02-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Originally Posted by rcrawf View Post
Swam for ten minutes or so with TT at my usual 1.1 setting and 14-15 spl 25 yd pool, height 5'8" 140 lbs 2 bt kick, latest focal point knuckle drags with relaxed recovery. Then set the TT to .75 the sound was a lot faster than I imagined. Took off with a 3 beep push off, kept my arms relaxed, with knuckle drags, no breaths, got to the end stayed relaxed wasn't too winded. So I did 3 or so more laps stopping in between, still felt relaxed and counted 19 spl for last lap. I never look at the clock but I figured out at home that that was a 16.5 sec lap including 3 beep push off. I had never tried anything faster than 1 on the TT, it felt quite exhilarating, especially the feeling of the water pushing up the hips. I'm wondering if 18 spl is a realistic goal, staying relaxed at the .75 tempo? But for 1500 meters? Dream on.
Nice stuff!
Are you aiming at competing at a high level?

Here's food for thought on the topic of trying to retain your DPS.

I am training a few elites, 1 of them being a smooth type fast relatively fast swimmer.

He's regularly testing at 0:59sec /100m worth of speed at 71spm. So I'm thinking maybe... 15-16 strokes per 25m (ball park).

His CSS speed is about 1:08/100m. So say I aim at setting his stroke to stroke at 80spm for sustaining CSS pace. Imagine the DPS loss during this trade? Stroke count at 1:08/100m goes from what... 14-15 up to 18-19?

So this is what I find striking.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
I wish from all my heart that I could agree to this, but unfortunately the ramp test often concludes otherwise. Passed a certain level, it's wrong to believe that stroking fast is something one can take for granted.

I'd propose that:
-Most can stroke between 1.0 and .87
-Only some can stroke between .86 and .76
-Very few can stroke over .75 without being specifically prepared for this
Not sure how you are disagreeing with me here? since I said I wanted to test my ability to hold a stroke rate of 0.96 instead of my more usual 1.14 and you reckon most people can hold 1.0-0.87???
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Not sure how you are disagreeing with me here? since I said I wanted to test my ability to hold a stroke rate of 0.96 instead of my more usual 1.14 and you reckon most people can hold 1.0-0.87???
Sorry Andy, I definitely agree with your process.

I was just questioning the idea that raising the rate was easy. It is, but up to a certain point.
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2013
rcrawf rcrawf is offline
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Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Are you aiming at competing at a high level?
Not exactly, I would like to get my 1/4 mile swim (sprint tri) under 7 minutes and 1/2 mile swim under 15 minutes. I'm about 20 mph on the bike for 15 miles with hills, and a 7 minute miler for 10k looking to improve in both at age 54 this coming season.

In swimming I have mostly been concentrating on technique and streamlining and keeping my SPL between 14-15 for 25 yds. I am now trying to integrate breathing with out lifting my head (old, nasty habit) rotating my weightless head early and seemlessly without interupting my stroke and my newly found speed. My goal was to increase to 100 then 250 then 500 while maintaining 15 spl... while always improving TI technique which I love!

Quote:
His CSS speed is about 1:08/100m. So say I aim at setting his stroke to stroke at 80spm for sustaining CSS pace. Imagine the DPS loss during this trade? Stroke count at 1:08/100m goes from what... 14-15 up to 18-19?

So this is what I find striking.
Is what you find striking that the decrease in DPS actualy leads to an increase in speed? I'm not sure what you're asking. As long as I stay relaxed I find I like the feeling of a higher stoke rate, it tends to straighten and lift my body, at least that's what it feels like. I will video at this high stroke rate (.75-.80) and observe and or confirm. Also, it's easier for me to work on and fine tune focal points at a higher stroke rate as sinking is no longer an issue. I'm always fighting sinking in most drills. I'm thinking I might do a little better at a higher stroke rate for distance as long as technique doesn't breakdown and I stay relaxed.

As far as CSS is concerned, this is all new to me, as I start breathing better I will find some sort of CSS to go by. Also, coincidentally, I've been changing my running mechanics increasing running cadence to nothing slower than 90 per minute, trying to become more "elastic" and reduce risk of injury according to Bobby McGee and Romanov. I'm wondering if there is any analogy to a higher stroke rate in swimming, even though the gravity situation (density compared to gravity) is different in water. Might there be an elasticity or similar issue with muscles, tendons etc. that make a higher stroke rate advantageous especially if the swim mechanics are streamlined and sound?

Thanks, Rich
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