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  #91  
Old 10-09-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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The standard cost of earning a medal... Interesting...

I truly believe that the more these costs are spread down to the early stages of development, the less you have to spend on elite.

Here in Canada, we get this all wrong. Too much money spent at a time where most of the development is done already. The Gymnastic federation were refused some financial help leading to London, as they did not do well enough in Beijing. That's just an example.

Without having experienced it, I see the US model as being one of the best in the world in this regard, as it seems to be using school networks optimally.

For instance, here in Canada, very few Universities are actually aware of the role they should play in preparing the elite for International competitions. Most claim that their only responsibility is toward preparing athletes for varsity level (only) competition. We have great networks for Primary school, High school, pre-University college, but accessing university is equivalent to a nose dive.
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  #92  
Old 10-09-2012
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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My impression is that the US college swimming system is the main reason for the pre-eminence of the USA in world swimming. Obviously the age-group and high school systems have an important role to play and the fact that the USA has a large population is an important factor, even if the swimmers come (or have come) mainly from the white middle classes. A scholarship to an American university is obviously worth a lot of money, perhaps more than most swimmers could hope to earn as professionals.

As far as I know there is no equivalent route open to British or Australian swimmers and now that the Soviet Union has collapsed I don't know how elites in the former Eastern Bloc are funded. Russia, Ukraine, Hungary and Poland still seem capable of producing fine swimmers, and so do France, Germany, the Netherlands and Italy. I think there is a good deal of state support in France but I don't know anything about the other European systems.
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  #93  
Old 10-09-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
My impression is that the US college swimming system is the main reason for the pre-eminence of the USA in world swimming. Obviously the age-group and high school systems have an important role to play and the fact that the USA has a large population is an important factor, even if the swimmers come (or have come) mainly from the white middle classes. A scholarship to an American university is obviously worth a lot of money, perhaps more than most swimmers could hope to earn as professionals.

As far as I know there is no equivalent route open to British or Australian swimmers and now that the Soviet Union has collapsed I don't know how elites in the former Eastern Bloc are funded. Russia, Ukraine, Hungary and Poland still seem capable of producing fine swimmers, and so do France, Germany, the Netherlands and Italy. I think there is a good deal of state support in France but I don't know anything about the other European systems.
I agree with you so much. During London 2012, I told my girlfriend that the US achieved a miracle in finishing ahead of china. Not sure how long it will last. But if it does last, It will be, in my opinion, because of this perfect balance between joy, happiness, studies, serious training, etc...

Not sure how you American will resist the will that China displays to dominate the world (in this case, in regards to sports), but CHEERS!!!!!!!
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  #94  
Old 10-09-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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This covers both funding and training environments. My view is that in the uk, most people who achieve elite level do so in the environment of extra curricular activities after school. Even at University level, with the slight exception of the programs in Birmingham and Loughborough its the same deal (or at least was when I was there a few years ago - 16)
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  #95  
Old 10-09-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Forgot to add, with over $1.5 million invested by the chinese for Sun's race in London its no wonder he had that look of panic when he false started. Can you imagine the party's response?
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  #96  
Old 10-09-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Hell no, record here in Canada over 100m free 11-12 category is 55sec I think...

I had swimmers in a bracket over that one, ie 13-15 to descend under the minute. Our fastest in the club I used to coach would do 51.6 over 100m free wearing no swim goggles SCM at age 15.

Here, to be more accurate, a quote from my blog:

" In Canada, the record for a 100m swim in 11-12 age group category is 54:12, recorded in 2011. The 200 free is done in 1:56.72 and the 1500 is booked in less than 17min. In order to aim for this sort of performances at such a young age, your typical swimmer is exposed to a lot of repetitions. In my humble opinion, that’s how they become swimmers. Repetitions, repetitions, repetitions. That is – I believe – What makes a swimmer, a swimmer!"
Now then Charles, a good example of changing the bar based on a new reality.

Today I discovered that if I fired my foot a little earlier and with more purpose, I could hold the tempo trainer with breathing at a much faster stroke rate without losing DPS.

So much so that I was holding 17SPL at 0.8 which meant a flat 16s for 25m. If I could hold that for 4 lengths, learn to dive and tumble turn without losing DPS then I wouldn't be that far from your '60s is relatively doable challenge'.!!!
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  #97  
Old 10-09-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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I confirm your discovery 100% !!

In fact, I think I confirmed already what you just discovered:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Though in the second case, you feel like the whole body is moving totally in synch from finger tips to toes, following a 1-2-1-2-1-2 pattern, I believe it's still possible to offset the kick a bit, ideally issuing it a tiny bit before. But hey, we're talking real fine tuning here.
That was said for a context that's a bit diff (ie, at higher rate), but it still applies to lower rate swimming, ie around 1.0 (or 60spm).

All in all, the higher the rate, the more important it is, I believe, to offset the kick a bit by issuing it a tiny bit before body rotation, as it favors body rotation (thus avoiding to become a limitation to the rate you can achieve).

Now back to the main topic which was off topic (lol), since I really hate being wrong, I asked the question to a pal of mine where I work.

Here's the question I asked. In your opinion Simon (his name is Simon), what % of all kids swimmers, under 17yo, that really want to go under 60sec for a 100m, will actually do it, given that they accumulated at least 5 years of swimming (ideally in a row).

He answered "Most". I said could you be more specific. He said at least 80%. I said are you sure (playing devil's advocate). He said well, it depends on the club. It's true that this small country club where I began swimming was so small, and the coaching resources so limited, that in such a context it could be 50-50. 1 boy out of 2 will make it to sub 60sec. I thought it was sad, but since I've never experienced coaching in this small clubs, he's probably right.

In fact, another bit of his answer was very interesting. He said that, in spite of being very very serious, he couldn't descend under 60 before age 16. Because in his case, this growth boost, you know that famous year where a teenager almost grow up by 4-6 inches in the year, for him it happened very late. So before that, he was just not powerful enough to achieve this fast pace.

Now Simon is 35. He's a master. Completely out of shape he can still swim sub 1:10 for 100m free, and probably sub 1:15 for 100m fly, and sub 1:15 for 100m back as well. He's now preparing a competition which is taking place in a month and a half. Resumed swim training 1 week ago. will swim around 9000m per week for 5-6 weeks, and will probably book close to his PB (as a master) which are 1:01.5 for 100m fly, 1.02.some for 100m back. He's no freestyle swimmer, but he's worth 59.5 roughly. Shows you how unfair it is. Once you've been there, things will never be the same anymore.

As a coach my main mission is to try to understand why.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 10-09-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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  #98  
Old 10-09-2012
CoachToddE CoachToddE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
There is an elite US military team, where elite athletes can train full time and earn their Army salary...I'm not sure if it's just army but I think it's for all armed forces.
Suzanne,
You are correct it is for all the services, elite athlete program. Also have it for the para's as well. We had a local Ortho Air Force Dr leave a year ago to go train for a couple of years and then return to active force when done. He was a triathlete doing this ITU circuit training in hopes of making the Olympics.
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