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Old 01-10-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Talvi
Default Interpreting my data - help!?

My biggest issue at the moment is that - the water on my left side is much denser than that on my right! My left arm feels it well but my right feels little. I keep thinking I've found something to address it but am struggling. In my last session for instance I found a focus on diagonal kick spear began to help.

So ... I've attached a slide of key data from yesterday and wonder if anyone can advise re any pointers that can be got from them.

To explain:
Left and Right refer to which side I breathe to (I was breathing alternating each 25m)
Strk and spm relate to my left arm (so need doubling to approximate normal measurement)
The last two 250m were separated by 30s to let a faster swimmer pass.
After the first two or three intervals, I slowed right down and focus on examining etc technique (the lanes had a lot of slow swimmers).
total distance was something over 3km.
My height is 178cm and wingspan 184cm.

Thanks in advance.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 140109_SessionData.jpg (64.4 KB, 38 views)
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2014
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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I remember this a lot with my swimming, it seemed to iron itself out without a lot of correction.

I do think there was something in one of Suzanne's threads about holding a relaxed stretched hold on the weaker side (head on the pillow sort of thing).

I guess that suggests it's a dropping elbow sensation that makes one side feel unheld?
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
I remember this a lot with my swimming, it seemed to iron itself out without a lot of correction.

I do think there was something in one of Suzanne's threads about holding a relaxed stretched hold on the weaker side (head on the pillow sort of thing).

I guess that suggests it's a dropping elbow sensation that makes one side feel unheld?
Hmmm, thanks Andy .. I keep hoping! :)

I like the sound of the head on the pillow and maybe being more patient.

Perhaps it's the feeling that's real and it's an imbalance in patience rather than a difference in "format".

I have worked on an EVF but the feeling is of the water just not being there. It's so wierd, it being so much easier with my weaker (left) arm.

I've been wondering if I shouldn't now break out the snorkel and spend some time with it.

p.s
Did you have a chance to look at the numbers? The numbers look in the range they should be but that makes me think there's something wrong! It doesn't feel as if I am in the range if you know what I mean.

p.s.s
Might it be worth extreme patience withb the weak side e.g take a breath, pause the hand at the hip and skate for a few kicks before recovery and then the next stroke?
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov

Last edited by Talvi : 01-13-2014 at 11:29 AM. Reason: p.s.s
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  #4  
Old 01-14-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Talvi
Default over-rotate on the OTHER side

During my session today I think I discovered part of my problem (of not being able to find the water on my right side). I over-rotate (raise my left hip) when I catch/pull with my left arm!! That seems to get me kicking too soon, so as to be able to rotate back for the other side, which I think then leads to my catch/pull being "rushed" somehow.

So, I seem to have exchanged one side being a mess with the whole thing being a mess! :D Time to go back and re-read that other thread: http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...ead.php?t=6968
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #5  
Old 01-15-2014
StuartK StuartK is offline
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Hi Talvi, belated compliments of the season. I haven't been swimming much recently, suffering from real life intrusions! However New Years resolution minimum of 3 times per week and 4 times if possible, so I'm hoping for vast improvement or at least consolidation.
I think you can get too caught up in the technicalities, I've found that the more I'm aware of what's going on, the more things I need to correct, and the more you try to correct then each step appears to be backward, as something else is messed up.
Answer is:- like when we started, keep practicing and go with the flow it will happen when it happens.
I'm trying to emulate coach Mandy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiPpiC0629I so I've relegated myself to the extra slow lane, there I drift up and down with the slow breast strokers trying to not get in anyones way, and hoping to achieve maybe 10% of her style and co-ordination. Make that 20% another resolution - be more positive!
A Manatee.
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  #6  
Old 01-15-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Hello stranger! Samoin! And I have been wondering about you lately, so I'm glad to hear you're still in the land of the living! :)

3-4 times a week ... wow! I can't do that. I've had sleep problems for the last two and a half years so don't recover enough between sessions. 3 times is a limit and mostly it's only twice.

I have to disagree with you a bit here though. It is tough trying to figure it all out without a coach, and putting things in text is problematic as the clearer you try to be the more detailed it all becomes and the more disconnected from reality it appears. However the process I'm on is the reverse i.e first it's digging inside experience and then it's pulling out explanation.

This realisation about my hips has been coming for a while now and crystallised yesterday. I'd had a number of chats here talking about rotation but focusing on the shoulders. Only recently has discussion turned to hip rotation.

As you suspected, changing that, or working on changing that, did make it feel as if everything was falling apart, but it also felt that it was also already beginning to come together again. I'll see next time as numbers from it show no change to averages.

With my hips more balanced and flatter, my right arm began to feel the water, and my right leg began to kick at a better angle. Disconnection between my trailing leg and kicking leg also became a focus. It's all a pretty fundamental change so I think it's to be expected that it would impact every part ofn the stroke - but I've been feeling I needed to go back to square one again somehow for a while now.

I'm not sure this has converted into anything yet, only the odd two or three strokes in a length felt "good", but it does feel as if it might have opened my plateau's door a smidgeon.

p.s I love that video too :)

p.s.s FWIW here's some still from it showing what I mean :)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mandy-DiffRotation11a.jpg (85.5 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Mandy-DiffRotation12a.jpg (89.8 KB, 9 views)
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov

Last edited by Talvi : 01-15-2014 at 04:43 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-16-2014
StuartK StuartK is offline
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I agree it's not easy without a coach, or even feedback from someone watching with some understanding of what you are trying to achieve. I'm never sure of what I feel I'm doing is what is actually happening. I see from one of your other posts you are looking for an underwater camera, I was considering the same myself if I could find a way of using it, there are early morning sessions which are less busy so I might see if it's possible then.

PS I prefered your 'make the water your friend' motto to your current one anything with spring boards is definately out with me!
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  #8  
Old 01-16-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Talvi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartK View Post
..PS I prefered your 'make the water your friend' motto to your current one anything with spring boards is definately out with me!
I do too I think. I discovered the current quote by accident. The guy wrote a lot of the Cream's songs. It's the epitaph from his tomb. He died in complete obscurity. I just felt like I wanted to remember him.

On the one hand I want a video of myself, and on the other I think I may prefer to hold onto the fantasy in my head!
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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