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  #1  
Old 01-29-2009
khoslaam khoslaam is offline
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khoslaam
Default How flat can I be in the water and still have core body rotation

During the TI course, I was told, be streamlined, body pointing to the side of the pool i.e. vertical, one shoulder peaking out of the water, head down, leading arm in front i.e skate position and just before hip rotation. The question I have is, can I lie a little more flatter in the water i.e. more horizontal, but being streamlined of course. Is their a rule of thumb I can used for this e.g. angle for rotation can be between 45 and 90 degrees. My reason for asking is that, I find my left shoulder and chest muscles getting very sore. Before TI, I used to swim flat in the water i.e. horizontal, shoulder or chest never hurt....although my stroke was not very effective :) Any insight anyone?
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2009
AWP AWP is offline
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kho,
If your intent was on pulling your arms then and is now, perhaps this is causing your discomfort, especially if you find your position more rotated during each stroke cycle.
Maybe focus on rotating "just enough" to allow the dynamics of the weight shift to accelerate you forward.
Drills such as Skating, Zen Skating, and Zen Switches will assist in and ingrain the proper movements.
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2009
khoslaam khoslaam is offline
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Not sure if I explained myself properly. I do move forward well and spearing my hand at the 4 o'clock position, etc.. its just that I feel maybe I am rotating a bit too much and this is causing my discomfort. How do I know when I have rotated enough to one side and when is it too much, other than the obvious i.e. when I roll right over :)

p.s. I think you may actually be answering my questions, I am just having a problem visualizing what you are trying to tell me.
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  #4  
Old 01-30-2009
daveblt daveblt is offline
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Rotate just enough to clear each shoulder as you roll .You do not roll to 90 degrees with shoulders stacked .Think more like 45 degrees . Remember that your spearing arm position is at least in front of the shoulder or a bit wider and not towards the center line which can cause you to over roll. A more circular recovery rather than a cramped one will help in keeping you rolling just enough.

Dave

Last edited by daveblt : 01-30-2009 at 04:04 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2009
AWP AWP is offline
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Dave has put it more clearly.
To answer your direct question , I feel it is OK to "level" off more. Again, rotate just enough so one shoulder is just above the surface keeping in mind the other aspects Dave has mentioned especially keeping your lead arm in line with your shoulder.

As far as your discomfort, if you are in fact keeping your lead in line with shoulder and trying to keep it there as you rotate to breathe let's say, and you over rotate, this may be adding unneccessary strain on those areas. Is breathing to the right your 'weak' side?
Check your balance..always.
Tell us more.
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  #6  
Old 01-30-2009
gobbles gobbles is offline
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Kho,
Did you attend a workshop recently?
90 deg body rotation position belongs to the 'Old School' of TI and I don't believed current TI workshops/books/dvds teaches them anymore.

As for your shoulder pain, it could be due to you are initiating your rotation from your shoulder first then abs muscles. If you could visualize dragging forward a bowling ball with a thin gage wire in water and something will soon bound to break . Maybe you could think of the whole body rotation process with your shoulders (arms, hands, etc) as the tracker, your legs is a stablizer, and your abs/core muscles is the rotator or power house.

Hope this helps...
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2009
CoachBillL CoachBillL is offline
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Default TI variants

I assure you that some TI workshops are being taught with stacked shoulders, "swim on your side," etc. -- mine certainly was, about a year ago, and it's still being taught the same way -- by an excellent good coach, to be sure. It is certainly not the case that everyone teaching TI now is teaching the same thing.
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  #8  
Old 01-31-2009
daveblt daveblt is offline
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[quote=CoachBillL;1524]I assure you that some TI workshops are being taught with stacked shoulders, "swim on your side," etc. -- mine certainly was, about a year ago, and it's still being taught the same way -- by an excellent good coach, to be sure.


Why would it be taught 2 different ways when the latest technique is not stacked shoulders ???

Dave
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  #9  
Old 01-31-2009
MarkkuS MarkkuS is offline
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Hi!
Look at the blogs section, at "Two-Pause Overswitch Progression - Bringing Skills to Whole Stroke by Coach Brian Vande Krol", where Brian shows a very good drill.

If you rotate enough and have a good balance, your spearing arm don't move up, down or sideways.
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  #10  
Old 02-12-2009
khoslaam khoslaam is offline
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Okay thanks. I finally think I worked out what was happening and maybe understand a bit more about TI. What seemed to be happening is that when I rotated to my left side, I did a good rotation and was getting hip drive. But when I rotated to my right side i.e. left arm in front, I was not rotating much at all. Thus the chest discomfort. It appears that also when I do a good rotation to my right my core muscles are not yet used to this and I have to gt used to this. However I do find that my head now moves a little from one side to the other, I guess I need to swivel on my axis keeping head looking down and hips rotating from one side to the other. Does this make sense ....
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