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  #11  
Old 04-23-2012
johnny.widen johnny.widen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjm View Post
Johnny: interesting video and nice, relaxed stroke. However, you are fishtailing. Your catch with your right hand starts too wide--outside your shoulder--then sweeps out further away from your torso. Your left hand meanwhile just crosses the center line then also sweeps outside your bodyline. This "out sweeping" causes your body to fish tail--it is almost never traveling in a straight line.

Remedies:
--wide spearing. Look where your arms spear--the right too far outside the shouder and the left crosses over. That's hard to fix by yourself. Have someone watch you or video from the front so the arms move directly in front of the shoulder.

--elbow bend. You have very little bend to the elbows during the catch. That straight arm catch may put too much stress on your shoulders so you compensate by moving the hands out away from your torso. You might try bending the elbows-keep them high--and focus on bringing that bent elbow OVER the hand. That won't happen but it may help your hands move straight back instead of diagonally and out to the side.


Just for comparison look at Ian Thrope from the front:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P31XJ16C4Ag

Good luck. mjm
Thanks!

I have used your observations to the focus points in my latest swim session. See the last video in my following post.

During the Autumn I worked for a while following Dave Cameron's advice in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDmQiHQ8mW8

At that time I got some problem with my left shoulder. I have no idea wether it was caused by that drill or if it was I might have done it wrongly or if it was something else. Maybe too much swimming overall. Anyway, I stopped using that drill.

I am right now in the process to strengthen my muscles around my shoulders. I hope that will improve my swimming.
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  #12  
Old 04-23-2012
johnny.widen johnny.widen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmike View Post
As pointed out, entries are much narrower on the L than on the R side.

This seems coupled to asymmetric recoveries: Not always but often the L upper arm is nearly vertical in mid-recovery, unlike the R upper arm. This complicates lateral balance and may contribute to the fishtailing. Maybe one could focus on the complete L-sided recovery with less rotation of shoulder.

Mike M.
Thanks Mike! I wasn't aware of that asymmetry. That will one of my new focus point.
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  #13  
Old 04-23-2012
johnny.widen johnny.widen is offline
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Default Some more videos

As said, I have now been working with dryland and water exercises and I have some videos taken after the workshop. The last one is the most recent and has been shot after starting this tread.

This is mainly the same state as in the original video with more angles
Swim technique for analysis, continued...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Affi_BeS8Q4

This is after mostly dryland exercises to hold my head fixed
Swim technique for analysis, continued 2 ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeAE3jvhOyw

As advised by Mat, I have been using the fishlike position to get right feeling of the head position before I start stroking
Swim technique for analysis, continued 3 ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH2C8Bza8_U

This is the same as above, but with more clips
Swim technique for analysis, continued 3 long ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETqmCeC-iyM

And a new video, after starting this thread:

Here I am following mjm's advices to get a narrower track on the right arm and also trying to keep my elbow higher after the catch
Swim technique for analysis, continued 4 ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x67pFNJ634w
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Johnny,

on rewatching your video, especially the over water shots from behind it looks as if you are rotating by rolling not reaching, this may be the cause of the fish tail as she looks like you too from behind when she demonstrates the rolling.

Watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-u0a...feature=relmfu

it really helped me understand the difference between roll and reach, but I didn't buy the machine :)
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2012
johnny.widen johnny.widen is offline
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Thanks Andy!

I haven't thought of the distinction between rolling and reaching before. I think you might have a point there, however one of my often used focus points is to be long, i.e., trying to reach out significantly. It should be well imprinted, but next time in the pool I will use it to see if there will be any difference.
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2012
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Hi Jonny,

Nice, long and harmonious stroke!

Now the zig-zag motion. I don't think it is the head. I think the main point is bending in the lower back combined with a little overrotation. Always at the spearing, when your front shoulder is down, you start to bend your lower back. That is the same motion as if you are standing on land and put your head back to look at the sky - you will bend slightly backwards in your lower back. When you do skating drill you do it sometimes - sometimes not. In some videos you can clearly see the zig-zag in the skating drill as well.

So, in the underwater videos you can see that you spear a little too deep - your head moves down, about 5 cm below the surface at the very end of the spear. At the same time your top shoulder is in a stacked position, the lower shoulder not so much. That means that you flex your entire back at the end of the spear. So you bring your shoulder blades together and flex the lower back which gives you this left-right motion. And I am sure you don't feel it at all because it is imprinted and feels normal.

What to do?
Several things. First of all you could do some SGs and make sure that you completely lengthen and flatten out your lower back. That will give you a feeling as if you push your legs down, but in fact they don't sink from that.
Then skating drill. Try to do it very close to the wall or the lane separator. So spearing with the right arm down on the left side of the wall or separator and try not to touch the the wall/separator but just keep very close to it. Same with the left side down right of the wall/separator.
Then you could do some strokes, again close to the wall/separator and then stop completely when one arm is in the spearing position and the other is at the start or in the recovery. Just let it glide to an almost complete fullstop and make sure that you don't glide into the wall/separator.
Then do nice and easy strokes, watch the black line in the tiles underneath you and try to remain absolutely centered on the line.

Also it would be good to try to spear a little more shallow so that your head doesn't go down. You can check that easily with an underwater video shot. And, try to swim strokes with extremely little rotation. It will feel as if you don't rotate at all but if you check with the video you will still see a clear and distinct rotation.
And - if you can - try to keep a focus on a long and flattened out lower back.

Maybe one of these things might work...

I attached a few shots from your last video.
Number one shows the head position at the beginning of the spearing - head is at sea-level. In shot number two which is at the end of the spearing and beginning of catch the head went down quite a bit. That happens on every stroke.
Then a sequence, #3 shows the beginning of a stroke, straight forward body position, well balanced. The next shots from this sequence will be in the next post (cannot attach more than 5 shots)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Capture1.JPG (10.4 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Capture2.JPG (14.1 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Capture3.JPG (7.0 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by haschu33 : 04-25-2012 at 01:37 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2012
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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In #4 in the middle of the pull you are already pointing to the right quite obviously. It is the entire body, not just the head. In number five you are quite dramatically pointing to the right, you can even see the feet from the front view. In #6 on the beginning of the next catch you start to point to your left side again, in # 7 you can see the bubbles at the side and behind of your body where the legs have been, and in #8 you are pointing to the other side already.

So it is the entire body that points from one side to the other, and I am sure the main point is in the back, mainly in the lower back.


Hang on in there, good work anyway!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Capture4.JPG (4.7 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Capture5.JPG (6.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Capture6.JPG (7.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Capture7.JPG (6.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Capture8.JPG (7.9 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by haschu33 : 04-25-2012 at 01:39 PM.
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  #18  
Old 04-26-2012
johnny.widen johnny.widen is offline
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Thanks Haschu for such an impressive analysis.

Watching the back view videos I have also seen that it is not just the head. You inspired me to an extra session today and I thought that it could be of value to start from the beginning, so I did the following drills with focus on lengthen and flatten out the lower back and to keep the head position from the Superman glide. I made a stop for each breathing.
8x25m Superman glide
8x25m Superman flutter
8x25m Laser lead flutter
8x25m Laser lead flutter with one shoulder in the air at a time
8x25m Laser lead flutter with rotation
2x25m full stroke
8x25m skate position, changing arm each length
2x25m full stroke
8x25 spear switch, very hard to lengthen and flatten out the lower back
Filming of spear switch
Planned to swim and film more, but a school class filled the pool, so I had to stop.

The videos show that I need more time with drills. Lesser rotation and also straighter left arm in the skate position.

I will continue tomorrow...
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Last edited by johnny.widen : 04-27-2012 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Changed to proper naming of the drills, according to the 10 lessons dvd
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  #19  
Old 04-27-2012
johnny.widen johnny.widen is offline
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Today's exercise:

4x25m Superman glide
4x25m Superman flutter
4x25m Superman flutter to full stroke
4x25m Laser lead flutter
4x25m Laser lead flutter with one shoulder per length in the air
4x25m Laser lead flutter with rotation
4x25m full stroke
8x25m skate position, changing arm for each length
8x25 spear switch

After this session I took each part and filmed it to get feed-back. The zig-zag is still there! I then tried to compensate with moving my head in the opposite direction. At least it felt as I was moving it. That raises some questions:
Am I really moving my head in the opposite direction?
Or is it just that I actually hold it still, but since this new action is not normal to me and therefore feels odd?
If the cause is my back as Haschu thinks, what will then the head compensation lead to? Thus will avoid the symptom but not the cause, which in general is not a good thing.

I will have another session tomorrow. Stay tuned for some videos.
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  #20  
Old 04-27-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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just another little idea, have you tried keeping your nose in the middle of the blue tile line on the pool floor and then put each hand either side of the middle line. Helps with swimming straight.
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