Best way to get the right kicktiming?

[fooboo]

Funny thing about Boomer video. Added just a bit of velocity to
backstroke recovery part and I could do 2bk with no further thin-
kering. That forward moving momentum works with rails under the
water. Rail is an arm in inner rotation and palm facing down. With
slow recovery I hardly could imagine what my legs are doing. Thanks
Boomer!

[CoachToddE]

Interesting discussion you all have had. I looked at the videos of Lochte and Irie and there is a noticeable difference in the amount of rotation each has from the waist down. Lochte is pretty much at 90 deg and Irie is close to 45 deg or a little less. This rotation is what is causing the difference in their kicking. For Lochte the over rotation does not allow for an opposite kick timed with the opposite arm pull. Iris has a good 6 beat kick with the emphasis or power kick coming at the timing of the catch, body rotation and pull. Iris' kick is more like a waltz tempo with a 1,2,3 - 1,2,3 with the 1's being the power kick.

I grew up as mainly a backstroker and IMer due to my back and fly. I don't think I ever gave my kick much thought and not one of my coaches talked to me about it other than kick harder. It wasn't until I learned the 2 beat kick for freestyle 6 years ago that I started to experiment with it in backstroke. I find it easy to use at slow tempos but not at a 50 or 100 pace and switch to more of the traditional 6 beat with emphasis on the 1 kick for each side. Using the 2BK in the slower tempos helped me connect the dots for the emphasis kicks at the faster tempos.

The other interesting thing I discovered was after I started using the Tempo trainer for freestyle I started to play around with it for the other 3 strokes. I found through stroke counting that my backstroke spl was 1-2 higher than my freestyle. What I didn't realize until after I started using the TT was how lazy of a backstroker I was. I first set the TT at my freestyle setting and quickly discovered it was too fast to keep up with and moved it .05 slower. I used the beep for entry and it changed my backstroke to a driven hand entry versus my old lazy entry. I have always had a quick beginning of the recovery just never realized how lazy I was on entry. After a few months moved the tempo back to my freestyle setting and now use the setting. I also use the same setting for breaststroke but divide the stroke in 2 beeps, one for extending to extension and the other beep for brining the hands in under the face and it has sped up by breaststroke as well. The fly was the toughest to figure until recently and am using a setting around .77 - .80 and again a beep for entry and a beep for finish. This also has sped up my hand and timed my kick better for finish and exit.

Very good discussion over the past year.

[Zenturtle]

Guy looks good in my eyes, but at every level. there are things to work on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQpg0eXRrio

[Zenturtle]

the most logical backstroke kick. An upside down 2Bk (with crossover)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4G7MiNmKPw#t=10.261609

[Zenturtle]

Finally, finally I have got my 6bk sorted in backstroke. Took more than 6 months focus to get it.
Always was placing the main kicks a touch to early. Probably because i was trying to drive all the rotation from the kick with not enough core lock on the main kicks and a timing that was a bit off. When I got accustomed to this early kick I started focussing on the arms more and the kick moved slowly more towards the edges of rotation. giving that aftersweep feeling.

now the 6BK timing is about the same as the asian womans standard kicktiming.
Lochtes kick is even later. Never could imagine how his kicktining worked, but now i have an idea.

2Bk timing is much earlier, on the catch instead of the finish of the stroke, thats why it took so long to get the 6Bk timing sorted, starting from a 2BK timing. Still confusing switching from 2Bk to 6Bk in backstroke.

2Bk timing on catch with afterkick that are timed almost the same as Lochtes main kicks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4G7MiNmKPw#t=10.261609
In fact its a 4Bk with 2 rotational mainkicks instead of one per switch.
standard 6Bk timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhzbOBEzYQU
Lochtes late kicktiming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CmM_Z3Zt5U

[daveblt]

I'm not even going to start with 6 beat timing on backstroke . It would probably mess up the stroke I spent so many years to improve .As long as my legs are moving along with my body motion and feel balanced then that's fine with me .

Dave