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  #11  
Old 04-12-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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Hi Werner,

We old folks have to be careful when interpreting what the younger folks mean when they say things. After all, they haven't been where we are yet, and they don't really know what is waiting for them.

If Charles meant that I should be focusing primarily on technique until I can swim at a distance pace of under 2 min/100m then I feel just fine with that recommendation. In fact that is exactly what makes swimming so much fun for me.

As for not taking any advice from someone who can't swim 200 m butterfly nonstop, or who can't swim 100 m at a pace of 1:30, I would be curious to know how fast Bill Boomer swims per 100 m. Judging from his picture in Stuart's thread on the propulsion paradox, I would be surprised if he can meet that high a standard. The point is that there is a difference between being able to coach people well and being able to swim well. Not all good swimmers are good coaches and not all good coaches need to be good swimmers.

Stuart,

Thanks for your suggestion regarding USRPT. Right now I am still swimming "pyramids" with the tempo trainer between 1.2 and 1.3 s per stroke and finding this interesting. At some point I will move on and try your suggestions.
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2017
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Hi Danny,

Focusing on technique is priority regardless of speed or level. Swimming (and life) is not binary as Charles described.

Re: Boomer. He's not a swimmer or ever was a swimmer, but was a track and field coach at Univ of Rochester. Whether swimming or any sport in track and field, he views movement patterns through the lens of physics and how an individual athlete's neural system responds in that environment. Boomer notes, this allowed him to look and study swimming and swimmers with innocent eyes without the filters of conventional swim wisdom or accepted norms. Here's a forum post on Boomer and some background: https://www.totalimmersion.net/forum...28&postcount=1

Re: 1.2 and 1.3. Nice! You are breaking through your comfy tempos. You can do a USRPT like set too and just on 25's. 10x25's @ 1.2 and maintain stroke count spl to spl+1. Rest enough between 25's so you can take on the next length at 100% (mentally and physically).

At 55 I'm no youngster either, but swimming keeps us young mentally and physically. I'm now enjoying my new discounts too - woohoooo!

Stuart
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  #13  
Old 04-13-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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Stuart,
Thanks for your suggestions. The bio info on Boomer is also interesting.

I have some emotional resistance to the idea of swimming 25 yd intervals. My personal feeling is that a 25 yd pool is already on the borderline of being too short to be a useful place to practice swimming. My preference would be a 50 m pool, but I rarely have access to one. My personal experience is that I need time and distance to find the rhythm that I like and need, whereas 25 yd is mostly push-offs. So my inclination would be to work on at least 50yd repeats if I was to try to do a USRPT type of workout. Let's assume that I am working towards swimming intervals somewhere between 300 and 500 yd. What length of repeats would you then suggest for me to try a USRPT type of workout?
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  #14  
Old 04-13-2017
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Hi Danny,

You can mix up any set that challenges the neural system to help break through comfort zone without breaking you down physically. I would challenge the emotional resistance to 25's though and discover what's holding you back to get into your rhythm sooner. The first three strokes you should be in rhythm and at full speed.

I suggested quick 25's to help you break through the dependency on slow tempos while not getting overly gassed swimming 25's. This allows you to remain focused and not lose posture or get sloppy in longer sets. Also to clean up added (unnecessary) movements that may be creeping into your stroke at slow tempos. These extra movements only eat up time and trigger imbalances that make it difficult to swim faster tempos.

Stuart
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  #15  
Old 04-13-2017
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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I do 25m repeats all the time during my tune-up and cooldown--I can keep a sharper focus on what I'm trying to feel, and take a ridiculous amount of rest between them trying to maintain the feeling I just felt. Then I'll start increasing to 50m repeats to see if I can hold a certain feeling longer, etc. So I'm with Stuart about not giving up on short repeats. I find them very useful.
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  #16  
Old 04-14-2017
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
I suggested quick 25's to help you break through the dependency on slow tempos while not getting overly gassed swimming 25's. This allows you to remain focused and not lose posture or get sloppy in longer sets. Also to clean up added (unnecessary) movements that may be creeping into your stroke at slow tempos. These extra movements only eat up time and trigger imbalances that make it difficult to swim faster tempos.

Stuart
How do I distinguish these " unnecessary movements" from unavoidable movements due to poor balance, but covered up in the hurry of a brisker tempo?

My understanding was that a central benefit of doing stupid slow tempo swimming is to unmask those imbalances and to learn to correct them intrinsically, with improved core stability, rather than to keep on compensating with non propulsive limb movements.
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  #17  
Old 04-14-2017
bujanglokal
 
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Why do I sometimes feel less tired when swimming fast (compared to when swimming slowly?)
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  #18  
Old 04-14-2017
Tom65 Tom65 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bujanglokal View Post
Why do I sometimes feel less tired when swimming fast (compared to when swimming slowly?)
Swimming slowly for some of us makes getting air harder.
Try it with a snorkel, swim as slow as you want as long as you want.
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  #19  
Old 04-14-2017
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello sclim,

Quote:
How do I distinguish these " unnecessary movements" from unavoidable movements due to poor balance, but covered up in the hurry of a brisker tempo?

My understanding was that a central benefit of doing stupid slow tempo swimming is to unmask those imbalances and to learn to correct them intrinsically, with improved core stability, rather than to keep on compensating with non propulsive limb movements.
Think Stuart will write a more detailed answer. Every movement not in straight relaxed recovery, drifting forceless to catch or pressing straight backward, or supporting your rotation and stretch-long are unnecessary. (Except you're swimming special drills to learn something else). Most times such movements are "bad habits" from former times to mask balance issues. And if you feel/see it's difficult to avoid them, there will be some rest of balance to improve...

Do this in (for you ridiculous) slow SR. It's not necessary that going to (stupid) slow SRs will unmask the same "unnecessary" movements you found in your all out. May be it will be some work to find your "critical SR of appearance". Well, then you might did get some additional balance-work. But first focus in, avoid your "unnecessary" movements. Pivot point will be the SR when they'll appear first and analyzing what does trigger them. If success in avoiding them go to faster SRs, but do it slowly in hundredth steps. If you think: "Ah, I've got it"... one lap slow, one lap fluid, one lap brisk, one lap all out, they'll sneak in without being felt...

After all, think these "stupid" slow SRs aren't as stupid... :-)

Best regards,
Werner

Last edited by WFEGb : 04-14-2017 at 08:55 AM.
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  #20  
Old 04-14-2017
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post

There is a German Coach (Sport scientist), Holger Lüning (Holger Luening), he has a YouTube-series about the "Gleitwahn" (madness of gliding)... He's hard to watch for a TI-Coach, because he tries to hammer some TI-keys without addressing TI directly... And it seems he didn't understand anything about TI. But he demonstrates, he calls it objectiv and scientific, that he can swim a tempo of 1:30min/100m in every really bad style. Yes he can...
Hi Werner, do you have any video of this? Just curious :)

Salvo
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