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  #11  
Old 07-26-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
@Charles,
I'm not a sinker. About 10kg fat too much (has been 23kg before started with swimming). To do this exercise I have to get a little hollow back to get my "bridge cables" work. (The guy in in the clip does this too.)
Really my point in this debate (if there's a debate), is that this can not work for all. If like it's the case for several of my athletes, you're a male with 5-8% body fat, no way that you can perform this. I'm not mentioning those who literally have a negative buoyancy, ie that can not float no matter how.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IKbtPzk1s8

The subject on this clip can at least float in this position. But some just can not. Period. And if you can not float in this position lungs full of air, then there's absolutely nothing you can do I'm afraid, since your buoyancy center is not strong enough to support your body even with the gravity center perfectly aligned.
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2012
bx bx is offline
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It's interesting and I like this guy but I agree he's overstating his case. If your body type doesn't accommodate nudging the CoG up to the CoB then there will be a turning moment, which will only vanish when the body is vertical.

I tried the drill tonight but my back just rounds over, though I can do back hyperextensions when lying on a firm surface.
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  #13  
Old 07-27-2012
tony0000 tony0000 is offline
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Very interesting thread! (I really should be spending less time in this forum and more time in the water :) I know I can float with a bit of flutter kick, but I've never really pushed myself to try to float with no kick at all. I'll certainly give it a try next time I'm in the pool and report.

Interesting H2Ouston page as well. I'm teaching my girlfriend to swim (*not* TI since I'm just learning it) and that page and what I've been doing are quite consistent.

BTW, based on this clip, I wouldn't be surprised if Shinji could float, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-L9MviFPPA (There has been some speculation in this forum that he has abnormally short legs, lol.)

Tony
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  #14  
Old 07-27-2012
borate borate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
@Charles,
I'm not a sinker. About 10kg fat too much (has been 23kg before started with swimming). To do this exercise I have to get a little hollow back to get my "bridge cables" work. (The guy in in the clip does this too.) Regards, Werner.
Jamie Shaules is a coach with a comedic bent. Some years back this clip came under discussion here. Knowledgeable contributors decried his advice on pelvis positioning and recommended just the opposite.

I put the question to Jamie via e-mail and he graciously replied that the issue was being scientifically studied at his facility. Yet I never received his conclusions.

The consensus of the forum at the time seemed to favor a flattened back with moderate core tension. No extreme emphasis on a tilt - one way or the other.

Check out the threads here for additional insight.
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  #15  
Old 07-27-2012
tritri tritri is offline
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I just tried to do so, but I was not able to float without moving. My legs inevitably start to sink if I don't move at all, but of course I might not do the exercise properly.

I'm 1m80 and weigh less than 70kg. On my back I can float with lungs full but I barely clear the surface.
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony0000 View Post
Very interesting thread! (I really should be spending less time in this forum and more time in the water :) I know I can float with a bit of flutter kick, but I've never really pushed myself to try to float with no kick at all. I'll certainly give it a try next time I'm in the pool and report.

Interesting H2Ouston page as well. I'm teaching my girlfriend to swim (*not* TI since I'm just learning it) and that page and what I've been doing are quite consistent.

BTW, based on this clip, I wouldn't be surprised if Shinji could float, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-L9MviFPPA (There has been some speculation in this forum that he has abnormally short legs, lol.)

Tony
Short legs would translate into a positive Ape-Index, which is definitely consistent with being able to carry exceptional distance per stroke. And yes, I tend to agree that the solution proposed in my original post may work with him.
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2012
mjm mjm is offline
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Default Balance and Strength

The original floating video seems to imply that getting or staying horizontal is merely a matter of activating the right muscles which he specifies. However, balance must be involved to a greater or less degree than strength.

It really doesn't matter which counts more (strength vs. balance) because without BOTH the horizontal position is problematic.

Think of a handstand. Can everyone do a handstand? Does it matter? Further does it matter if you are strong if you don't have the balance to perform the feat? (I can't and it's a balance issue for me).

Plenty of folks faster than me have a worse horizontal position, especially when breathing as the head comes up and the hips and legs sink. Most develop compensations, strong pull, scissor kick, 6-beat kick, etc.

During practice I focus on my ultimate racing goal: go as fast as possible while using the least amount of energy. Compensations are energy sucks and hard on my physical well being. YMMV. mjm
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  #18  
Old 07-30-2012
tony0000 tony0000 is offline
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Tried the floating test today. Didn't even come close. I'm a 5'10", 170 lbs male. When I'm in the water vertically water is somewhere between my wrists and midforearms. I did my best to tuck my pelvis, arch my back, etc. Although I felt my legs were higher, when I checked, they were at a 45 degree angle. I'm sort of skeptical I can do anything to move my center of gravity forward to my center of buoyancy, short of tucking my legs.

Tony
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  #19  
Old 07-30-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Again, I do not want to discredit the author of this clip entirely. I just think it's very very sad to let people believe that they're not *normal* or that they're doing things *wrong* if they do not achieve a perfectly horizontal position without moving at all.

Most males swimmers that we admire at the 2012 London Olympics can not float horizontally without moving at all. In fact, I'd expect to find the largest percentage of sinkers (ie, those who just can not stay at the surface without moving, regardless of the position, period) among elites. 6feet 8 with 3-4% fat, forget it. You sink down the pool even with lungs full of air. But yet, they're the swimmers and we're the spectators.

As I wrote not long ago, I did teach these drills last friday with a tri-squad down town montreal, and we had a great time. All in all, males could adopt a position that really surprised me. In fact, they achieve something similar as what you found out. None of them were sinkers. All of them enjoyed the experience and mentioned that they were going to work on that by their own.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 07-30-2012 at 08:11 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-30-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Default Curious about yardage

Terry,
Another great swim. I was curious as i have been dilligently reading your posts, how often you have had 2 swims in one day this summer. Also, what the maximum distance was that you swam in any day or week. I am not advocating for high mileage, but i was curious if you had upped the amount of distance swum on a daily basis while continuing your mindfulness. Keep up the inspiring practices and races.
ian mac
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