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#1
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![]() I've been waiting for someone to finally start this thread, and Suzanne did it, but she buried it in another thread, so I am reproducing what she wrote here.
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I did see some single kick fly, but didn't have enough time to study it. there also seem to be a lot of variations where the second kick is so mild it could be argued whether to count it or not. Last night in the 100 m fly semi-finals, Phelps was in 8th place at the first 50 and finished in second place. In situations like this, it's fun to watch film to see how he did it. Was he stroking faster than everyone else or was he stroking longer? what combination? I need to go back and look at that. Not sure that the longest stroke in breast stroke is always the winner. King beat Efimova in the 100 m breast, and I think she has a shorter stroke, especially in the sprint at the end. Last edited by Danny : 08-12-2016 at 07:40 PM. |
#2
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![]() Cammile Adams' butterfly side-breathing had me mesmerized. It works for her, and I know others have used this side-breathing technique with success, but it looks odd and inefficient. I wonder if this is a technique that she was taught or something that evolved.
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#3
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![]() I am in favor of butterfly side breathing if a flatter butterfly is more efficient compared to a butterfly with so much undulation you can breathe at the frontside anyway.
The flatter buterfly seems to be more efficient, so adapt your breathing to it, just like you do in freestyle. ( i dont know anything about butterfly, but have an opinion anyway ;-)) |
#4
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![]() Yeah, I saw this too. Funny, I do this in freestyle all the time, but in fly it seems like it would throw you off. Then again, in freestyle we don't really do it because the head is rolling with the shoulders, so you aren't looking over your shoulder, but in fly she is looking over her shoulder.
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#5
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![]() Quote:
It should be noted that Katie Ledecky is one of the swimmers who deviate most from what I've just said. What is very noticeable about her stroke is that she clearly isn't swimming in pace with a tempo trainer! There is a bit of a pause in her stroke every time she takes a breath. The first thing I learned about my own stroke from the tempo trainer is that I have this same tendency. It tends to make your stroke less symmetric, and is one of a number of reasons that many of us who were originally taught to breathe on only one side have trouble achieving a symmetric stroke. There are so many subtle stroke habits that arise from breathing unilaterally for many years! Shane Eversfield noticed a couple of years ago that when I'm swimming at certain speeds, I'm actually kicking with only one foot! It's a muscle memory that was created by having spent most of my life having breathed only on my right side, and it will take lots of training to transfer the bilateral kick I can achieve at slower speeds over to my race-pace kick. And in the meantime, I can probably swim slightly faster during a race by breathing only on my right side, though if I let myself do this during my practices, I will never overcome the problem. Katie's head also comes up a bit more when she breathes than is true for her competitors, and I suspect that she might be able to cut drag a tiny bit if she could overcome this. Bob |
#6
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![]() Quote:
Bob |
#7
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![]() Quote:
There seems to be more men who swim asymmetrically than women. The prevalence of this increases with the distance swum. 100 m and below, the swimmers aren't even breathing on a regular pattern, and it is much easier to swim symmetrically when you aren't breathing. There is also a distinction between not being horizontal (which probably no one at the olympic level can afford to do) and undulating. Undulating drives the front part of the body deeper at one point in the stroke so that it will bob to the surface later on, usually in order to facilitate breathing. This has nothing to do with legs dropping. But in conclusion, most of the swimmers do seem to swim symmetrically. |
#8
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![]() One more comment on asymmetry. Most of the olympic swimmers seem to be one-sided breathers. I can understand that the demands of racing make this necessary, but even if you want to breath on every second stroke, it seems to me that switching sides occasionally would at least give you the opportunity to see the competition on either side. Instead I have the impression that some of the best swimmers avoid breathing on the "wrong side" even when it might be beneficial. Once you start doing this, it becomes difficult to avoid building asymmetry into your stroke over time.
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#9
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![]() The asymmetric or loping stroke usage depends on the distance swum.
We have talked about this loping stroke stuff in the past without any real clear conclusion. You will find the most lopers in the 200/400 m race distance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9usmHbuYWc (only one is almost symmetric, Frazer Holmes, who happens to win) Non in the 50 m and also less in the long distance events. Loping seems to be a hybrid between shoulder driven sprint and hip driven long distance. fast catch on one side long slide on the other side. The rhythm happens to fit in nicely with some undulating and more time to take a breath,and keeps some advantages of a sprint stroke. Kathy has said it often. Once she gets into that loping rhythm, its hard to stop. Something is mental too I think. Like a monotonous tribal dance thats makes people go on and on far longer than they would do without the music and without getting into that trance, zone or whatever you want to call it. Some of it also could be linked to buoyance bounce rhythms that work together (or not) with strokerates. Here the boy goes from symmetric easy pace, to loping medium pace to symmetric sprint pace again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fC_QCMW1Xs He can swim symmetric, but chooses not to do so for certain paces. Last edited by Zenturtle : 08-13-2016 at 05:21 PM. |
#10
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![]() ZT, where do you find this stuff? I've said this before, but the eminem sound track on this thing just cracks me up! It's great and works so well with the swimming. Maybe it's because I'm from the Detroit area, although I didn't grow up in a trailer park, like the protagonist in this song. Anyway, point well taken.
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