Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-29-2009
mailtonataraj mailtonataraj is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 24
mailtonataraj
Default core balace - rotation from hips or shoulders

I am newbie to Freestyle but am sure TI is the perfect method to learn Freestyle. I am practicing "Core Balance" and my question is should the rotation originate from the hips or from shoulders.

Rotation from shoulders seem to be bit wierd but just want to understand which one is right.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-29-2009
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 647
CoachBobM
Default

You want to be rotating your core body as a unit, but you are likely to feel that you are initiating the rotation from your hips.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-29-2009
ayesr ayesr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 92
ayesr
Default Rotation from the Hip

I have noted (and confirmed what other TI swimmers have observed/done) that the two-beat cross kick (2BCK) facilitates the hip drive which in turn moves the shoulder. Thus, the left foot-drive in the 2BCK moves the hip & shoulder for the right arm/hand to spear the water (and vice-versa).
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-29-2009
rwilkes rwilkes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 73
rwilkes
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mailtonataraj View Post
I am newbie to Freestyle but am sure TI is the perfect method to learn Freestyle. I am practicing "Core Balance" and my question is should the rotation originate from the hips or from shoulders.

Rotation from shoulders seem to be bit wierd but just want to understand which one is right.
This is a good question ! For me, at times i still get the feeling that i am using the "pull" to propell myself forward. However, when i concentrate on this area, i do get the feeling that my hips are rotating to propell forward.

Its a difficuly one to get right, especially for me in spearswitch !
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-29-2009
elskbrev elskbrev is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 65
elskbrev
Default rotation from hips or shoulders

mailtonataraj,

Rotating from the shoulder was something I was criticized for in my first TI lesson. Prior to TI I knew only back swimming, and whenever I wanted to roll to my stomach I used my arms and turned over beginning with my shoulders.

I got over the habit by concentrating on exactly what ayesr and CoachBobM are saying--use your 2 beat kick to roll your body as a unit.

You might imprint the correct kick by practicing it with your arms held still at your sides or even overhead. Then, in switch drills coordinate the weight of the spear drive hand and shoulder together with the kick you have imprinted to rotate the body virtually as a unit.

BTW, if you don't rotate your body "as a unit" with a strong hip drive, but rather with your arms and shoulders, your lower back can get overstressed.

Cindy
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-29-2009
vol vol is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 175
vol
Default

I recently found that in 2-beat "big scissor" kicks, the legs help the hips rotate, which then bring the whole body including the shoulders to rotate.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-29-2009
atreides atreides is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 293
atreides
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elskbrev View Post
mailtonataraj,


You might imprint the correct kick by practicing it with your arms held still at your sides or even overhead. Then, in switch drills coordinate the weight of the spear drive hand and shoulder together with the kick you have imprinted to rotate the body virtually as a unit.

BTW, if you don't rotate your body "as a unit" with a strong hip drive, but rather with your arms and shoulders, your lower back can get overstressed.

Cindy
Elskbrev has it right. Just this weekend I was "refining" my technique by incorporating what a Coach had said about "spearing" properly. He said it was like riding a swing. When you're riding a swing, just before you move downward; generally you shift your weight to add to the downward velocity When you reach flat part of your swing curve, you lift your legs to give you that upward velocity. Well, as you might expect, I was having a hard time integrating this into how to spear into the water without pushing your hand into the water. Then it dawned on me that letting gravity provide the "force" into the water and then immediately following that with hip drive, pull, and kick was what he was trying to describe. Watch Shinji Takeuichi as he spears. His hands almost just drop into the water but then he rotates pulls and kicks and generates all of this forward momentum. I don't always get the timing right but when I do, I glide a long time. In fact if you practice getting into a glide on your side without plowing into the water with your hands you almost have to rotate your core to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-30-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,077
shuumai
Send a message via Skype™ to shuumai
Default Freestyle 360 Balance

Watch the way the legs move during body rotation in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCInkX0ayEk

TI used to have a drill like this.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-02-2009
ayesr ayesr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 92
ayesr
Default "...big scissors kick..." of Vol

Vol, I believe, hit it right on the nose with the scissors kick to use in the driving foot in the 2-beat cross kick...

On hindsight, a scissors kick initiated my breakthrough in learning the 2BK. The scissors kick provided:
o the force to drive my hip, core body
o the turn of the shoulder to clear the water
o the glide that allowed me to spear - so slow mo - the hand/arm into the water.

The "feel" of a right 2BK with scissors kick is characterized by:
o the seemingly effortless hip-drive propulsion
o the gentle clearing of the shoulders (resulting from the hip-drive)
o the glide, brought about by the hip-drive, that allows one to do a graceful execution of the marionette arms done in slow mo.

As a next focus, I am trying to determine the right angle of the knee bend, in doing the scissors kick with the end-view of being able to do the "toe flick".

End.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-02-2009
Ghul Ghul is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 59
Ghul
Default

I find concentrating on rotating as a unit greatly helps my stroke count and
efficiency. Not sure about the term scissors kick. I'm used to it referring to kick which is too wide and and so acts as a drag.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.