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  #11  
Old 11-15-2011
DD_l_enclume DD_l_enclume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Hi,

the length at 3,04 looked more relaxed than the others, and the recovery was more symettrical, were you doing something different?
Good point.That length was at slower tempo (~1.4). It feels to me like a drill, not swimming. If I want to got from A to B as fast as possible (but still sustainable), I'm gonna swim like the 1st lengths of the video, not like that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway
Try some superman glides with left catch, arm out, right catch, arm out, left catch, arm out right catch, arm out. bit like slow motion windscreen wipers.
Sounds good. that + your video on HEC in mind should help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway
To reach further think of something dramatic (e.g. you are locked in a cowboy prison cell and the key is on the floor 1.5m in front of you, put your hand through the bars and try to reach it, you should actually feel a stretch in your back muscles) Count your strokes. This is how I got down to nearly Sun Yang minimum SPL but I would only use it as a training set now as the effort required to stretch my back muscles etc is quite considerable
:-)
I like the cow boy picture !
The splash-and-noise swimming version of that visualisation would be to have the cow boy behind you trying to get you. The impact of the style would be dramatic !! :-))


On the serious side, don't you feel your body arching when you're trying to reach too far forward ?
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  #12  
Old 11-15-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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No not actually, just a big stretch in the muscles behind the shoulder on the back (infraspinatus and teres?)

http://www.drtummy.com/index.php?opt...sk=view&id=323
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2011
Agent42 Agent42 is offline
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it looks too me like you have a very wide recovery and that your arm is moving inward after the fingers have entered the water. Almost like a waterpoloplayer. I'd say you shold try to pick up your elbow abit and get your hand moving in a straight line from lift to entry.
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2011
tpamperin tpamperin is offline
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To cut down on splashing, I'll often swim a couple of slow, easy lengths where I do nothing but focus on high elbows/marionette arms, and actually turn/lift my head to watch my hand enter the water on each stroke. I really EASE my hand in, trying to create zero bubbles and no splash.

It's a very easy focus (no bubbles), which allows your body to find out what it needs to do on entry without having to overthink it.

Tom
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2011
mjm mjm is offline
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DD: much improved since your first video in 2010. Nice and relaxed. These are my suggestions:

1.-The splash is caused by your arms entering the water flat. Try to enter hand first, then wrist, then elbow.

2.-Your head is completely submerged. Top half of your skull should show while swimming. Low head makes breathing difficult.

3.-your left arm sweeps under your body when you breathe--this throws your alignment off so you swim side to side--not in a straight line. Try extending the left arm when you breathe instead of pushing down to get your head up. Correcting #2 above will help.

4.-elbows lead the catch. To start the catch keep the elbow still and let the forearm drop so your fingers point to the bottom of the pool. Then bring the forearm and elbow back together with the palm always facing the wall you just left.

I would work on only one issue at a time. Good luck. mjm
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2011
aerogramma aerogramma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
This frame was so startling to me that I found it nearly impossible to comment on your video. Please tell me what's happening in the other lane??? (pic attached)
genious! suzanne you're a genious!

if only more here would follow your example :)
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  #17  
Old 11-16-2011
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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DD_I_enclume,

I think it looks quite good, the legs are quiet, nice stroke, good work!
Also, having the palm facing to the (opposite) side during spear is no problem, I think. It means that you don't put so much internal rotation on your shoulder during the spear. From the video it seems you are entering with the palm facing down and turn it with the rotation (the first two pictures show that). That is perfectly ok, I think. BTW Michael Phelps is doing exactly the same, as you can see in the third picture. To let your arm and hand rotate with the body roll keeps your shoulder from internal rotation during the spear.
In the first two pictures you can see the entry is ok and then the palm is rotated with the body. And Michael Phelps hand position at the end of the spear in the third picture.

The most prominent thing I see is the timing, you see that clearly in the above water shots. You have this 'deadly pause' at the end of the pull. It always takes just a moment too long until your arm comes out of the water, that makes it not only look very un-rhythmic it in fact it is disturbing the rhythm. Under water you can see that in the pull you are going all the way back with your forearm until the arm is completely stretched out and then you move it out of the water. That last phase of pull doesn't give any propulsion. In fact when your forearm and fingers cannot point to the bottom of the pool any more - you can't keep it vertical any more - then the propulsion or the anchor gets so weak that you might as well get your arm out of the water. That would be somewhere at hip level not all the way down at the thighs. In the second picture you can see that you have stretched your left arm all the way back and start the recovery with a long arm. I think it is better to start early and move the elbow out of the water first.
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2011
DD_l_enclume DD_l_enclume is offline
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DD_l_enclume
Default Thanks

Thank you all for the analysis, advices and kind words.

There no other place I would have been treated that way.

I have all I need now to make some progress and hopefully help others on my way.
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  #19  
Old 11-17-2011
sinker sinker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
This frame was so startling to me that I found it nearly impossible to comment on your video. Please tell me what's happening in the other lane??? (pic attached)
Suzanne
Lately I have been swimming a couple laps, and then doing a lazy two handed backstroke for one length to refresh, regroup and rehash focal points. He could be doing the two handed backstroke, but the head down position has me puzzled also.
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  #20  
Old 11-17-2011
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
DD_I_enclume,
Also, having the palm facing to the (opposite) side during spear is no problem, I think. It means that you don't put so much internal rotation on your shoulder during the spear. From the video it seems you are entering with the palm facing down and turn it with the rotation (the first two pictures show that). That is perfectly ok, I think. BTW Michael Phelps is doing exactly the same, as you can see in the third picture. To let your arm and hand rotate with the body roll keeps your shoulder from internal rotation during the spear.
In the first two pictures you can see the entry is ok and then the palm is rotated with the body. And Michael Phelps hand position at the end of the spear in the third picture.
Normally I agree with pretty much everything you write haschu. But the palm turning in this case isn't helping the shoulder joint (it's not hurting it either), but it IS hurting his swim. With the palm turning there is no opportunity to "cultivate the feel" of the water as Terry might say. That time when the arm is extended, the fingers should be tipped down towards the pool bottom, palm faced rearward so that the first movements of the stroke direct water rearwards.

To fully understand internal rotation try this:
First: Sit down and extend your right arm directly in front of your shoulder, arm parallel to the floor, palm down. Now rotate your palm to the inside and back down. Do this several times and note how although your forearm is rotating, your upper arm is not. This motion that you are doing, rotatating the forearm so that the palm faces in and then down is called supination and pronation. The shoulder joint shouldnt' move when you do this.

Second. Start with the arm in the same position, palm facing inward. Now bend the elbow 90 degrees so the fingers point to hte sky, the forearm is vertical, the upper arm is parallel to the ground. The upper arm should still be in the same orientation as exercise number one...it hasn't moved or rotated yet.

Now with the elbow remaining bent at 90 degrees, rotate the arm inward so the fingers now point to the wall to your left. Note how your entire upper arm rotates when you do this. This is internal rotation of the shoulder, and this is what you want to avoid as much as possible.

They are subtle differences, but I think important to understand if you have shoulder problems or want to avoid developing them.

The truth is that swimming is hard on the shoulders and puts them into unstable positions. Learnign more about how the shoulder joint works and moves and what positions are more likley to cause injury will make you a better swimmer. I don't believe that the "thumbs up" position shown here is protecting the shoulder joint, rather it simple represents and area for improvement to separate rotating the body from extending teh stroke.

Also, just because Phelps does it doesn't mean it's good. We can still use common sense and knowledge of biomechanics and fluid dynamics to improve up on things we see elite swimmers do (even if we are not as fast). Everyone has room for improvement.
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