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  #1  
Old 07-20-2011
Graziella Graziella is offline
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Graziella
Default position of Arm in skating position swimming whole stroke

I m learning with the self coach TI DVD
How should the gliding front arm touch the water surface in whole stroke?
A bit bent ( looks like it in the videos )
or straight like gliding through the water ?
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Old 07-20-2011
borate borate is offline
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Originally Posted by Graziella View Post
How should the gliding front arm touch the water surface in whole stroke?
A bit bent ( looks like it in the videos ) or straight like gliding through the water ?
Always keep the elbow higher than the wrist, and the wrist higher than the fingers.

Slide a relaxed hand gently into the water, nearly flat, as if entering a mail slot. Then stretch forward as the roll completes and the entire body is streamlined.
Keep fingers relaxed and pointed towards the pool bottom, ready to pull straight back. Look here for a glimpse of how one master performs the arm movements.

How deeply the hand enters is a subject of debate, and will relate to your flexibility and body mechanics.

Last edited by borate : 07-20-2011 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 07-20-2011
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by borate View Post

How deeply the hand enters is a subject of debate, and will relate to your flexibility and body mechanics.
Borate, wonderful description. However I'd say that it's not so much a matter of debate, as that implies controversy. Suffice it to say that the optimal angle and location of hand entry depends on your flexibility & body mechanics. At our level of swimmign thought, there is no debate about the value and importance of balance & streamlining, and how to achieve it.

However, those with less flexibility or more stubborn habits to break, may benefit MORE from a steeper, earlier hand entry. Those with more flexibility and more experience in a good, effective catch, will get EVEN MORE out of a less steep, more foreward hand entry. Great examples can be see by watchign the comparison videos of shinji, phelps and jones, as well as the comparisons of shinji & terry. What's best for one may be strenuous for another. But there's no debate that an arm in the water causes drag. But if a steeper entry GAINS you better balance and a firmer catch (leading to propulsion), while protecting the shoulder joint from repetitive strain...that's a WIN all around.
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  #4  
Old 07-21-2011
Graziella Graziella is offline
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Graziella
Default front arm entering the water

Borate : )
you are really a Master in putting swimmingTechnique into words. Thank You : )
*I ll keep an eye on the mail slot* ~~~~
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  #5  
Old 07-22-2011
neilaro neilaro is offline
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Originally Posted by borate View Post
How deeply the hand enters is a subject of debate, and will relate to your flexibility and body mechanics.
Hi, Borate:

I've been thinking a lot about hand depth, especially in my case where it being too deep leads me to over-rotate. My initial understanding is that the Y-axis position of the hand relates to the need to counterbalance the weight of the legs, to obtain a more stream-lined body position. It also would seem to follow that the depth of the hand could vary depending on your velocity in the water. Presumably, at faster velocity, the force of the water against the legs would cause them to rise more, like the stern of a motor boat as it picks up speed. So, with faster swimming, one should not necessarily have to spear so deeply to maintain forward/aft balance, right?
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Old 07-22-2011
borate borate is offline
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Originally Posted by neilaro View Post
Presumably, at faster velocity, the force of the water against the legs would cause them to rise more, like the stern of a motor boat as it picks up speed. So, with faster swimming, one should not necessarily have to spear so deeply to maintain forward/aft balance, right?
Intuitively, it seems plausible that increased speed aids lift, with better balance/decreased drag allowing for a shallower pull . Scientifically, I can't say. Others will chime in...

Last edited by borate : 07-22-2011 at 01:50 AM.
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  #7  
Old 07-22-2011
neilaro neilaro is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
However, those with less flexibility or more stubborn habits to break, may benefit MORE from a steeper, earlier hand entry... But if a steeper entry GAINS you better balance and a firmer catch (leading to propulsion), while protecting the shoulder joint from repetitive strain...that's a WIN all around.
Hi Suzanne:

Just recently, I've been working on a less steep entry and an earlier catch, and I certainly notice more strain in my left shoulder. I seem to have gained better balance in the water and seem to be closer to the surface, but I also feel less of the drive from the hips. This is likely a result of having reduced the amount of usual rotation. I have to experiment with this, but obviously the shoulder pain is a warning sign.
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Old 07-22-2011
aerogramma aerogramma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
However, those with less flexibility or more stubborn habits to break, may benefit MORE from a steeper, earlier hand entry. Those with more flexibility and more experience in a good, effective catch, will get EVEN MORE out of a less steep, more foreward hand entry. Great examples can be see by watchign the comparison videos of shinji, phelps and jones, as well as the comparisons of shinji & terry. What's best for one may be strenuous for another. But there's no debate that an arm in the water causes drag.
Very interesting suzanne, a master swimmer and coach at my pool gave me exactly the same reason for extending my hand entry: and arm in the water causes drag, if you enter early with a non extended arm, drag applies earlier.

I was able to radically improve my lap times and balance with this single piece of advice.

I keep thinking that mail slot, early entry and steeper angle are really hard nuts to crack and sometimes it's better to try extended your stroke at a shallower angle with wide tracks in mind.
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2011
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by aerogramma View Post
Very interesting suzanne, a master swimmer and coach at my pool gave me exactly the same reason for extending my hand entry: and arm in the water causes drag, if you enter early with a non extended arm, drag applies earlier.

I was able to radically improve my lap times and balance with this single piece of advice.

I keep thinking that mail slot, early entry and steeper angle are really hard nuts to crack and sometimes it's better to try extended your stroke at a shallower angle with wide tracks in mind.
Something Terry said to me at one swim session was to try and move the mail slot further and further forward...while still maintaining a smooth entry into the slot. Watch this comparision video to see how my attempt compares to an olympian's attempt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiWEts7N4uI
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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