Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 09-08-2016
novaswimmer novaswimmer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 228
novaswimmer
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi Novaswimmer,

I use aquatic signature for any new swimmer that comes into masters. This gives me and the swimmer an idea of where the water and gravity puts the swimmer's body. This helps us determine if adding more specific skills to balance (lift the hips) using body position and not turning arms and legs for stability. Most of the swimmers are triathletes and their main stroke is freestyle, so I don't use it to determine which swim event favors their signature, only awareness of their center of mass vs center of buoyancy. Males generally very low signature, and females have much higher signature and more naturally balanced, but is unique to each swimmer and body type.

There is an aquatic signature for both pool/lake and salt water ocean. My aquatic signature in the pool is roughly 75 degs, with the surface being 0 degs - very low hips (as with most guys). In the ocean, I'm between 30-40 degrees, much higher profile. Swimming long distance in the ocean feels routine, whereas pool/lake I really have to focus on skills that keep my hips high and balanced on each stroke.

Anyway aquatic signature is a great tool/test and awareness for both swimmer and coach.

Stuart
Thanks for your response! Good to hear.

Yes, I've been in the Dead Sea before, so know that salt water can def. influence buoyancy. Of course the Dead Sea is ridiculously salty. Can't let any of it get in your eyes.

Last edited by novaswimmer : 09-08-2016 at 05:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-08-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,898
Zenturtle
Default

Stuart is the Boomer expert.
I think the logic is that a distance swimmer can't afford to spend much energy in staying level.
Racing against another swimmer who floats like a cork over a long distance gives the floater an advantage.
Staying level can take up a relatively large part of the total energy expenditure in extreme cases.
In sprint swimming the extra effort to keep level is minor compared to the extreme power output already required to go fast forward through the water.
Don't know if it's saying anything about your optimal stroke.Butterfly, freestyle etc.

triathletes have relatively overworked legs from running and bicycling. Making those legs heavy and not trained for optimal swimming movements.
So the legs sink and the floatation test places them in the sprinter catagory.
Swimming hard without a kick makes your upper body stronger and heavier, already improving your static balance and moving you a little toward distance swimmer.
So heavy specialized training can shift your aquatic signature a bit. Dont know if that can really change your genetic floating starting point much.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 09-09-2016 at 11:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-09-2016
novaswimmer novaswimmer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 228
novaswimmer
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Stuart is the Boomer expert.
I think the logic is that a distance swimmer can't afford to spend much energy in staying level.
Racing against another swimmer who floats like a cork over a long distance gives the floater an advantage.
Staying level can take up a relatively large part of the total energy expenditure in extreme cases.
In sprint swimming the extra effort to keep level is minor compared to the extreme power output already required to go fast forward through the water.
Don't know if it's saying anything about your optimal stroke.Butterfly, freestyle etc.

triathletes have relatively overworked legs from running and bicycling. Making those legs heavy and not trained for optimal swimming movements.
So the legs sink and the floatation test places them in the sprinter catagory.
Swimming hard without a kick makes your upper body stronger and heavier, already improving your static balance and moving you a little toward distance swimmer.
So heavy specialized training can shift your aquatic signature a bit. Dont know if that can really change your genetic floating starting point much.
Thanks so much for your answer. That was what I was wondering. Of course this is assuming all other characteristics of the swimmer are equal (lung capacity, flexibility, etc,etc, which of course - they are not -- I get that).

But I wonder if a better aquatic signature wouldn't help all swimmers in all categories. Are there any cases where it would be a hindrance??
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-09-2016
kirill
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by novaswimmer View Post
lung capacity, flexibility, etc,etc, which of course - they are not -- I get that).
Actually I was surprized to learn how much you can increase your lungs volume. I learned it from my uncle. Basically, it's holding your breath in sitting position, and measuring time. Not to overdo it and faint, just to do it regularly and measure the progress. You can start from as little as holding it for 60 or 90 sec.
He is 67 now, and told me when he was younger he managed to increase his active volume from 6 to 9 leters by these regular "excersizes".
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-09-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,898
Zenturtle
Default

Do you mean sucking in as much air as possible and keep the balloon inflated to the max while holding your breath?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-10-2016
CoachStuartMcDougal's Avatar
CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,353
CoachStuartMcDougal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by novaswimmer View Post
But I wonder if a better aquatic signature wouldn't help all swimmers in all categories. Are there any cases where it would be a hindrance??
The high aquatic signature can be a double edge sword. I have found those with very high profiles (bob easily on surface), the swimmer looks forward, back arches and swims flat with low and wide swinging arm which causes a lateral twist of the spine - especially for the novice swimmer. Swimmer is often plagued with shoulder discomfort/pain. It's takes more focus for the high aquatic profiles to get the body to rotate more with a higher recovery arm so the spine doesn't twist left and right on each stroke, along with head neutral aligned with spine and gently tucking pelvis which allows for ease of rotation connecting whole body movement.

Stuart
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-10-2016
kirill
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Do you mean sucking in as much air as possible and keep the balloon inflated to the max while holding your breath?
Yes. He recommended doing that when sitting straight on a chair, relaxed.
As I said he is 67 and can currently hold for at least a minute longer than me.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-10-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,898
Zenturtle
Default

And do it for 10 years, 5 hours a day? ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-19-2016
lloyddinma lloyddinma is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 169
lloyddinma
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyddinma View Post
It appears the term aquatic signature has been around for a while. I bought this book a year ago: "Mastering Swimming, " that talked about.
I stand corrected.

Upon consulting the book again, I see it actually credits Bill Boomer with developing many theories including, the aquatic signature as a relaxation strategy..
__________________
Lloyd.

Stillness is the greatest revelation.
-- Lao Tzu
The light of the body is the eye.
-- J. Ch__st.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.