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#11
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![]() Quote:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...aic.10389/full
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD Level 3 USAT Coach USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass Steel City Endurance, LTD Fresh Freestyle |
#12
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This may be different from what you are describing but for me it's a frustrating swim not only due to SPL differences, but also because I know internally that swimming @ 18 SPL is a completely different technique than I want to implment, so on those days I don't swim for distance or pace, just for movement. Not sure that relates to what you are saying at all? On the other hand, I will say that some of my BEST swimming days come the day after an upper body day with PULLUPS. Not because I think the pull ups necessarily help, although they might, but because when the lats are sore, I can feel where they are and when they are stretched during my recovery and entry. If I can fully stretch them during recovery and prior to the catch I know the rest of hte stroke is going to be solid. On days they are not sore, I am less aware of them and my proprioception has not yet advanced to the level of maintaining the same form as when they are sore. Curious isn't it?
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD Level 3 USAT Coach USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass Steel City Endurance, LTD Fresh Freestyle |
#13
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![]() Enlightening responses from both Charles and CoachSuzanne. I was actually interested in the high viscosity fluid as a way to give novice swimmers more support and to slow the actual stroke and stroke rate way down in order to have more time to think. Like swimming in slow motion suspended animation at ten strokes per minute. I wonder what sort of proprioception one would get from taking fifteen seconds to drag a hand from entry to hip? What would it feel like to "glide" through syrup?Would it be like one of those bad dreams people describe running and being unable to move? Of course some people might experience a bit of panic breathing in syrup and want a snorkel. But maybe one would learn certain things faster?
One of the beautiful zen parts of swimming is the paradox of trying to anchor the catch in cement and at the same time superman glide as if flying through air. |
#14
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![]() Hallo Jeffinhawaii,
2ct from an other non coach: When moving too slow it's difficult to feel the changing in viscosity. It starts best (for me) when coming from the catch to adjusting the arm to get a plain resistant feel on hand and forearm and then it goes to the next phase trying to hold this feeling... CoachSuzanne described it as if the forearm reaches over a wall edge. To feel it you have to have a minimal velocity. You'll not get it in super slow motion... If my stroke isn't my best it feels as if the syrup is just touching my outer arms. (Mostly caused by not spearing with index finger direction and/or leading elbow... :-( ) When in a well balanced streamlined position the syrup might be felt just as an anchor for your stroking arms and not with your body... But listen to the coaches. Best regards, Werner |
#15
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![]() Today I tried to incorporate some of the ideas that were offered (in order to help feel the water). Andy's idea with the door was a real eye opener--and really helped to "feel" the difference between pulling and anchoring. (Even tho it was out of water).
Azamy also had a good idea with practicing in front of a mirror. Did this several times to get how it felt. Then Janos and Richardsk suggested sculling. Went to a website to see all of the drills associated with sculling. Did a little of this this a.m. and was able to create some whirlpools. Have to investigate this further to see how it may help. Actually some help came from another post--Hip Driveand Propulsion. I like the idea of letting gravity take over for the hip that is highest--just let if fall as I spear and try to "hold" the lead hand. got more instant results from that. Also, since I was practicing with a TT, I noticed that the faster I set the TT, the easier it was to feel the water. Not sure how good my stroke was, but at least I was able to feel the water. Started at 1:45 and worked way down to 1:25. That was the easiest. SPL stayed pretty much the same, 19-20-spl, but I know that is kind of high. (I am only 5' 3.5") Anyway, thanks for all your postings--they were all great. Sherry |
#16
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![]() Quote:
But it never occured to me that this was related to my sore body, and my empty fuel tank. And I never tried to replicate the experiment. You need so much focus, time and willl to swim that much for training. Now, with Charles's comment, I might consider giving it a second thought. But that comment from Coach Suzanne seems to go in the opposite direction : when she "feels" the water, it looks like a bad day for her (higher SPL). Are you two describing the same thing ? |
#17
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![]() it sure does, other from the fact that from my perspective, ie when I did experience it, counting strokes were the least of my concerns, surviving the set was.
Again though, my point here isn't to try and produce this condition, as we all know how important it is to avoid bunking. Quote:
In fact, my biggest tri-talent these days is an exceptional runner. 23yo, can already run more than 100k per week. She loves it etc... But she can not perform one single chin up, not even one. And that to me, is an issue. |
#18
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3nb8NRiHqw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVAUtm3apic Hey, here's a third one, a nice one too. 100m 25-1 = Sculling in position 1 (catch position) 25-2 = Sculling in position 2 (mid body position) 25-3 = Sculling in position 3 (back of the stroke position) 25-4 = Moving from position 1 to position 3 within the 25m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmnwvFcGkkc Though I find the execution in this clip *acceptable* I much prefer leaving the head in the water to avoid neck and back tensions. The lady performing the drills is a natural born swimmer that feels good in any sort of context. She feels good this way. I think she's just too curious by nature, and can't help looking at what her hands are doing.... But I recommend making sure your body is comfortably being held by the water, and for that, it's better to let the head in the water. Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 10-01-2012 at 08:15 PM. |
#19
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#20
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![]() Sculling while stationary only gives you a feel for what the water 'should' feel like. My thoughts are that you can't really exploit the viscosity of the water for grip when moving at slow speeds, and there is a critical speed that varies for all of us, depending on skills developed and physical factors like weight, catch technique, streamline etc. The speed needed, reduces as our skill and feel increases. Perhaps there is an argument for starting students with a six beat kick and then reducing it to a two beat when necessary feel has been developed?
Regards Janos |
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