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Old 05-27-2015
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 479

Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post

When you enter the arm at 12 oclock then its maybe better to wait a bit, keeping a patient lead arm, but now I enter more on 11 and 1 or even 10 and 2.
Today I tried to deliberately exaggerate this concept:

1) 50m entering at 11 and 1, exiting at 7 and 5
2) 50m entering at 10 and 2, exiting at 8 and 4
3) 50m entering "almost" at 9 and 3, exiting at 8 and 4
4) 50m classic, entering at 12, exiting at 6

All these reps at the same effort level.

Well, the slowest one was the 4th, the fastest were the 2nd and 3rd, equally. It was amazing how the 3rd rep could be effective despite basically NOT stroking. Comparing to the last rep (classic bk), the frontal axis felt firmer and the kick more effective.

Here I'm not saying that 3) is the right way to swim bk, of course it is an exaggeration (like it is an exaggeration to swim freestyle with a very deep spear). But it is a way to highlight that when I enter at 12 and exit at 6 I tend to break the frontal axis and/or push water in the wrong directions, while by narrowing the catch+pull path I can keep the whole body straighter and firmer.

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Old 05-27-2015
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,244

Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Now its much better to continue the movement right after entry and concentrate on windmilling arms with comstant force and traction.
So, no patient lead arm, but a continuous moving arm,
At the front, and at the back.
Spot on. In fact, good backstrokers throw their arm back. So that'd be the opposite of a patient hand there. In other words, they don't just rely on gravity (i.e. the arm would be falling just because you let it fall, as in freestyle). They really throw that arm.
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Old 05-27-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,898

Dont feel that the static weight of the arm is a big roation driver either.
Its more a dynamic action. Feels more like building up kinetc energy in this recovering arm during the recovery.

The push backdown at the end in the water is very much linked with the slingshot throw and entry of the other arm.
Whether the kick is following or leading this action is hard to tell.
Actually this backstroke is very non TI like.
Tend to switch toward more windmilling freestyle timing too after some backstroke laps.

Started bakstroke to find out why swimming at strokerates below 50|min just isnt working optimally for me.
Thought it had to do with breathing ease at higher speeds in freestyle, but the same thing happens with backstroke.
It just wotks better at a higher strokerate. It can be done slow, but the dynamic connections are not available then.
Only downside is that its also requires more power at higher strokerates.

Hey Salvo,
Enteriing at 9 and 3 is crazy, bu t good for trying though.
A lot has to do with flexibility and strenght at the extended position.
There is no strenght at the 12 o clock position, there is no backwards direction and the flexibility is probably also lacking, so the spine is bend to achieve this position.
Even Lochte isnt straight when he extends.
Coughlin enters with the upperarm already in a ready to catch position. A neat compromise between drag and propulsion.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 05-28-2015 at 12:08 AM.
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