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#61
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![]() I guess this is different for each person, and Talvi is doing a good job of trying to describe how to start exerting force, but for whatever it's worth, here is the gauge I use. Sometimes when I am swimming, I start to notice that my arms are getting tired and I feel like I am working too hard. When this happens, I start waiting longer to apply the pressure, and I focus more on spearing forward as opposed to pushing back. I feel like I've got the timing correct when my arms aren't tired any more and I sense that most of the power is coming from body rotation, not from working the arms. It's a wonderful feeling because I haven't lost any speed, but I no longer find it tiring!
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#62
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I'm trying to think relaxed, as opposed to my somewhat grim mind-set on getting the job done, as I compare in retrospect to what I am trying to get now. I also am trying to integrate a hint from ysun29x in a comment in a different thread (freestyle:how to integrate a catch/pull?), that is, to include the shoulder blade in the pulling phase. This was easier than I thought, because, after all, the shoulder-blade (scapula, or, actually the latissimus dorsi muscle) was stretched out as far as possible during the elongation phase of the spear, and it was easy enough, when the time came, to remind myself to drop the shoulder early during the pull (i.e. depress the scapula towards my feet), rather than leave it shrugged up against my ear. And, of course, I am still leading the recovery with a shoulder initiated lift, as I learned to do last week, rather than thinking just elbow lift. Talvi -- in the absence of confirmation of my earlier question, I am assuming that the following of the lead hand down the VW hood contour comes after the spear, which (I am assuming) is a separate earlier movement in a straight line angled down at a 30 degree (or so) angle. At least, that's how I am arranging the sequence in my head, and it seems to be working out smoothly and well. I ended up being slightly less out of breath, with less subjective effort, yet did not suffer any loss of SPL at the same tempo, maybe even improved marginally on some tries. This is very encouraging -- thanks a lot guys. Last edited by sclim : 12-10-2014 at 08:15 PM. |
#63
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Be careful when you think of the spear in a straight line. The catch is much easier to form if you keep the elbow pointing at the sky as you spear. In this position the arm has a slight and natural bow shape, the same as when we put our arm around someone's shoulder for a hug. |
#64
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One, are you talking about the slightly curved line being the snapshot diagram of shoulder-elbow-wrist-fingers in the static position during the spear? Or two, are you talking about the path traced by the tip of the lead fingers. And also, if the arm is slightly bent, also followed by every subsequent particle that is attached behind this moving point? When I hug someone, my elbows are pointed out more or less horizontally left and right to the horizon. I am not flexible enough to internally rotate at the shoulder until both elbows simultaneously point skyward. Really, 45 degrees (that is, halfway) on each side is the most I can achieve. Of course, if I am rotating my trunk axis to the right, then I can get my left elbow much closer to vertical; I take it this is what you are trying to get me to achieve. Running through a dry land exercise, at this degree of full shoulder rotation, my elbow very naturally seems inhibited from extending fully. So with my elbow bend being slightly bent at the top of my internally rotated and extended arm, I see what you mean about the natural (rain-)bow shape of the spearing arm. I think TI teaches us to spear at an underwater target. In the interests of maximum accuracy, I have always been visualising a straight spear path. If the spear really is a banana, does the banana travel straight initially? Or, in your book does it follow the banana path too, in its precise path to the prearranged target? |
#65
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![]() hi
i think the path is straight just that the elbow is never locked so that the movement to catch is always prepared this is phelps drilling with long stroke and exaggerated rotation but you can see the elbow is already prepped for catch as the hand enters the water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zJSI0aoRfU ditto shinji, ditto popov |
#66
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![]() I think there are some pretty clear shots in this video of what you want when spearing and catching. That said, I think there is some room for individual variation here, depending on shoulder mobility and other things.
I suspect that even the coaches exhibit differences on this score. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rddHPTCt_8U |
#67
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![]() OK, I got it, guys -- fully clear on that now --thanks!
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#68
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![]() Ok, late to the party (and thanks Danny!!), and it's sorted but .... now I'm either confused and/or disagree, a tad anyway :)
In my opinion, as a first step the spear and the catch should be felt as different. First the spear then letting your hand and forearm drape down into the catch followed by the upper arm to get the ball of water or commence digging the trench as ZT put it recently. Having said that I hear what Andy says I just think it's a bit advance i.e that it's easy if you're not very good to get an impatient spear and move thje centre of balance backwards as the water will immediately try to push your arm back if you don't resist it. It sounds to me like great advice once you get under the 2:00/100m pace for a continuous swim. Above that I feel/suspect a tendency to cut short or poorly form the spear and get in a tangle. What I see in those shots Andy posted is the hand entry rather than the spear, whcih I feel as the underwater part of that action which leads to the full elongation.
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation." ~ George Kelly "The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move." ~ Aleksandr Popov Last edited by Talvi : 12-19-2014 at 03:45 PM. |
#69
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Last edited by sclim : 01-13-2015 at 08:46 PM. |
#70
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