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-   -   Question about Sinking during Underswitch (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=132)

garybarg 12-22-2008 12:26 AM

Question about Sinking during Underswitch
 
I've been practicing TI Freestyle for several months now. Feel very comfortable with skating and rotating to sweetspot to breathe.

When I start doing underswitch, I notice that I sink a few inches as soon as I move my arm forward. Just does not feel right - seems like I get too low in the water. Not sure if it's just the way it will be for me (I am very lean, pretty muscular) or if I am doing something wrong. Keeping my lead arm between 4 and 5 o'clock in the skating position to keep buoyant and moving the recovering arm, during underswitch, to the same 4-5 o'clock position.

Thanks for your help,
Gary

shuumai 12-22-2008 12:39 AM

Maybe recovering underwater is producing excess drag that is tipping you downhill too much. Does it feel like you're catching a lot of water with the recovering hand?

garybarg 12-22-2008 05:30 AM

Honestly, cannot tell you if I'm catching alot of water with recovering hand - will pay closer attention to that on my next practice on Tuesday.

If the underwater recovery is producing excessive drag, any way to alter that recovery to reduce drag?

Thanks!

socalsteve 12-22-2008 08:07 AM

I get the same thing on overswitch, when my hand is by my head. No drag at that point, just a weight shift.

RadSwim 12-24-2008 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garybarg (Post 874)
When I start doing underswitch, I notice that I sink a few inches as soon as I move my arm forward. Just does not feel right ...Keeping my lead arm between 4 and 5 o'clock in the skating position to keep buoyant and moving the recovering arm, during underswitch, to the same 4-5 o'clock position.

Gary-

Unless you are unable to put your leading arm straight forward (at 3 o'clock) because of limited shoulder mobility, try underswitch at 3 o'clock. It is likely that your deep clock position is the culprit, pulling you deep like the down-angled forward dive planes on a diving submarine. If you have difficulty achieving balance while skating with your leading arm at 3 o'clock due to your lean form, put on some fins to add a bit of lift to your kick. Zura Alphas are my favorite because they float, counteracting sinking legs. But, keep the kick very light.

Good luck,
RadSwim

Willem 12-25-2008 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalsteve (Post 879)
I get the same thing on overswitch, when my hand is by my head. No drag at that point, just a weight shift.

I have the same problem, although I wonder if it is really a problem?!? My shoulders are not lithe so I have to hold my leading arm quite low. I also use fins for the drills. Any tips or is the sinking problem not really a problem as long as you keep your horizontal position?

shuumai 12-25-2008 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willem (Post 947)
I have the same problem, although I wonder if it is really a problem?!? My shoulders are not lithe so I have to hold my leading arm quite low. I also use fins for the drills. Any tips or is the sinking problem not really a problem as long as you keep your horizontal position?

Could it be your kick with fins that pushes your legs higher which drives your head lower? Are you fluttering or doing a two-beat kick?

RadSwim 12-26-2008 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willem (Post 947)
I have the same problem, although I wonder if it is really a problem?!? My shoulders are not lithe so I have to hold my leading arm quite low. I also use fins for the drills. Any tips or is the sinking problem not really a problem as long as you keep your horizontal position?

Willem-

Almost everyone will sink a little if they pause before entry in overswitch...that's why I quit pausing.

Sinking in underswitch probably means something is pulling or pushing you deep. The things that I have witnessed in myself and my swim buddies:

1. Steep and deep leading arm pulls your body deep (see my earlier post in this thread).
2. Deep head position pulls your body deep.
3. Kicking incorrectly with fins pushes you deep. (I will elaborate below.)

For the past several months I have been working with a swim buddy who had a very lordotic (curved) and inflexible lower back. When he kicked with fins, his kick was posterior to (behind) the coronal plane (centerline) of his torso. With fins on, he generated enough thrust to push himself right down to the bottom of the pool. I will never forget watching him skate under me, scraping the bottom of the pool 3.5 feet down.

After working several weeks on dolphin kicks with fins and dryland core strengthening, he was able to move his kick anterior to his coronal plane. He now can stay at the surface when skating and switching.

Do you recognize any of these posture problems?

Good luck,
RadSwim

Willem 12-26-2008 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuumai (Post 949)
Could it be your kick with fins that pushes your legs higher which drives your head lower? Are you fluttering or doing a two-beat kick?

I'm doing a 2 beat kick Shuumai. You can be right, because if I kick with fins, I really have to focus on not splashing the water, so that's maybe because my legs are too high which results in a sinking head. I should ask someone to watch me underwater.

shuumai 12-26-2008 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willem (Post 959)
I'm doing a 2 beat kick Shuumai. You can be right, because if I kick with fins, I really have to focus on not splashing the water, so that's maybe because my legs are too high which results in a sinking head. I should ask someone to watch me underwater.

Ah! Maybe your legs and hips are floating high (a good thing) and/or you are bending your knees a lot and raising your feet (not so good). I think the 2-beat kick is least likely to cause a splash compared to a 6-beat kick because the feet are more likely to break the surface in a 6-beat kick.

It seems that a 2-beat kick starts near the surface, or at least with the leg in line with your body.. The kick starts at the hip. As the leg is drawn down, the knee bends. Then the lower leg snaps into alignment again. The non-kicking leg seems to float up to the surface on its own as the body rolls and the other leg kicks. I don't think the foot should break the surface in this case. If it does, it might cause a ka-plunk sound and have less power.


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