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-   -   Rotation/Catch/Kick Synchronization and Timing Variants (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9605)

Mushroomfloat 06-25-2018 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal (Post 65849)
Seems like your spending too much time thinking about the what the low side arm is doing or preparing to do. Slowing down the high side arm to give the low side arm more time to do what .... ? Thatís a first, youíre kidding right?

Stu
MindBodyAndSwim.com

If the highside arm fires over like a shot you tend to snatch for the catch and slip water, you get a better anchor / hold on the water without snatching at it.

Im not talking slowing highside right down just not whipping it back to the fromt like a missile

Mushroomfloat 06-25-2018 05:16 AM

It moves faster through the air than the underwater arm so to set the anchor without snatching at it there needs to be a balance.

i recall seeing a drill for this i will find it.

Mushroomfloat 06-25-2018 05:21 AM

2:08 v

https://youtu.be/-tl_tBzKmsA

WFEGb 06-25-2018 01:32 PM

Hello Mushroomfloat,

Hmmm... I am again irritated, but seems you are aware, that this is a very good demonstration, of what we try to avoid in TI?

Best regards,
Werner

WFEGb 06-25-2018 01:54 PM

Hello ZT,

Quote:

...(Terry) He rotates his hips too much relative to his shoulders and thats unbalancing his body in a rotational sense. His hips have a rotational overshoot that he has to overcompensate every stroke. Thats where these extra kicks come from.
Experience with your former posts showed me, your sharp eagle eye is much clearer than my look of an old man. But to me it seems in this demo, Terry rotates his shoulders just a bit more and a tiny moment earler than his hips, supporting his wide forward but splashless entrypoint. May be that's in fact is the cause for his tiny "reflex-kicks". (.. to stabilize this far reach forward)

Best regards,
Werner

Mushroomfloat 06-25-2018 04:41 PM

Is this not Terry Laughlin narrating this shark fin drill TI video then?

https://youtu.be/rwQ3l5YyloQ



Quote:

Originally Posted by WFEGb (Post 65853)
Hello Mushroomfloat,


Hmmm... I am again irritated, but seems you are aware, that this is a very good demonstration, of what we try to avoid in TI?

Best regards,
Werner


WFEGb 06-25-2018 07:18 PM

Hello Mushroomfloat,

Quote:

Is this not Terry Laughlin narrating this shark fin drill TI video then?

https://youtu.be/rwQ3l5YyloQ
Stuart knew Terry better than I, but I don't think so. He's neither the voice nor one of the swimmers. If I'm wrong, this has to be years (at least 10?) ago...

Best regards,
Werner

PS: But all the swimmers are showing exquisit balance in this drill!

Zenturtle 06-25-2018 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFEGb (Post 65854)
Hello ZT,


Experience with your former posts showed me, your sharp eagle eye is much clearer than my look of an old man. But to me it seems in this demo, Terry rotates his shoulders just a bit more and a tiny moment earler than his hips, supporting his wide forward but splashless entrypoint. May be that's in fact is the cause for his tiny "reflex-kicks". (.. to stabilize this far reach forward)

Best regards,
Werner

in my view the body has to wind and unwind from hips to shoulders, hip rotation proceeds shoulder rotation, shoulder rotation exceeds hip roatation in amplitude. Just the same as in all throwing movements.
Free to disagree offcourse, but thats what Thorpe is doing.
Way to many swimmers with overrotating hips and underrotating shoulders in my view, but thats no new opinion.

Zenturtle 06-25-2018 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny (Post 65847)
Hi ZT, are you losing interest in swimming because you've reached a plateau, or do you continue to enjoy the time you spend doing it?

I agree with you that Shelley's legs and kick action seem quite streamlined, but I can't escape the feeling that she is losing some grip up front. This may be because her entire arm enters the water up front straight and parallel to the surface. Because of this, she seems to move her straight arm downward for quite a bit before she finally bends her elbow (even though she does eventually get that high elbow while her arm is still forward). You can see the trail of bubbles that this straight arm entry causes. It is hard for me to judge whether or not there is a connection with the raised head and the arm entry, but this is definitely not the way that I try to swim. A straight arm entry like this means that your shoulder is already much lower when the arm enters, so this means a completely different timing between the arm stroke and the body rotation.

I see what you mean, her elbow is even touching the water before her hand.
Thorpe is even worse in this regard. look at how his right arm enters the water.
It might not be ideal , but when you try a starightish arm recovery and throw the arm forward from the body and the shoulder, you will find that the most relaxed arm landing is actually elbow hitting the water before the hand. I agree it doesnt look very nice and gives extra bubbles.How much it hurts performance. I dont know.
Ranomi krowowidjojo does it a lot too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD2cmGpw0oA.

watch right arm in slowmo. The power is in the body and shoulder rotation. the arm follows and is forced to high elbow position just in time.

And about using the mass of the recovering arm pushed forward from the low side:
Pelligrini is a champ at using that. Hard to enter gently without bubbles after swinging that mass forward, but at least she has a pretty good entering shape too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5Tg8d2TmoU

Mushroomfloat 06-25-2018 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenturtle (Post 65859)
I see what you mean, her elbow is even touching the water before her hand.
Thorpe is even worse in this regard. look at how his right arm enters the water.
It might not be ideal , but when you try a starightish arm recovery and throw the arm forward from the body and the shoulder, you will find that the most relaxed arm landing is actually elbow hitting the water before the hand. I agree it doesnt look very nice and gives extra bubbles.How much it hurts performance. I dont know.
Ranomi krowowidjojo does it a lot too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD2cmGpw0oA.

watch right arm in slowmo. The power is in the body and shoulder rotation. the arm follows and is forced to high elbow position just in time.

And about using the mass of the recovering arm pushed forward from the low side:
Pelligrini is a champ at using that. Hard to enter gently without bubbles after swinging that mass forward, but at least she has a pretty good entering shape too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5Tg8d2TmoU

I've seen, experienced myself (& pointed on on a link a few pages back) the elbow strike before the hand, i think its a by product of "delivering the arm with the hip" ie turning the arms over from the torso.

I had worked out the hip proceeds the shoulder (for hip driven anyway) but i will monitor shoulder rotation to see if its amplitude is more than hips, i just tried it dryland and its a powerful corkscew feeling.
Will try in the pool tommorow


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