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-   -   How does Thorpe suppress bounce? (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9662)

Zenturtle 08-07-2018 11:15 AM

How does Thorpe suppress bounce?
 
Anybody knows how he supresses bounce in his stroke while using a 2BK?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHszSCgMkpU

Mushroomfloat 08-07-2018 11:29 AM

I think he channels the bounce into forward drive, using hips and extention to drive towards the end of the pool.

He has a good rise and fall rythmn here
https://youtu.be/mv_sDYHYzFw

Zenturtle 08-07-2018 02:44 PM

Bounce is a vertical movement.
Its started by unbalanced vertical forces, and it can be ended by other vertical forces.....Not introducing vertical forces is even better, but impossible to do.

He has a good rise and fall rythmn here
https://youtu.be/mv_sDYHYzFw

Those arms reaching to the watersurface is not a great example (but commen, also with elite swimmers)

CoachJamesEwart 08-07-2018 07:23 PM

He would emilminate 'bounce' by driving forwards with arms to correct depth rather than rising in extension and by better head turn for breath

CoachJamesEwart 08-07-2018 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenturtle (Post 66222)
Anybody knows how he supresses bounce in his stroke while using a 2BK?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHszSCgMkpU

Terrible head lifting and back arch

CoachJamesEwart 08-07-2018 07:26 PM

absolutely not imposible to do with good balance in the water but certainly unco drills will not help you eiimnate 'bounce'

Mushroomfloat 08-07-2018 07:28 PM

Does (did) he want to eliminate bounce though?

I think he actually used it, riding the underwater pressure wave

Zenturtle 08-07-2018 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachJamesEwart (Post 66252)
absolutely not imposible to do with good balance in the water but certainly unco drills will not help you eiimnate 'bounce'

ha ha . I dont agree, but i like your firm opinions. Unco amplifies bouncing tendencies, so its easier to become aware of the causes and try to lessen them.
I am convinced the rotation and slight twisting aroud the axis during the stroke stabilises the forward movement and lessens bouncing. If you swim rather flat and have a jerky pull the bounce is much worse and forward progress less.
Your catch and pull can also greatly influence the bounce, but I fond the optimal movement for unco is slightly different than normal freestyle.
You need to exagerate the high elbow stuff relative to normal stroke.
here is swimmer thats intruducing little bounce by optimizing his pulling technique
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7b-dgpUXhU
(and because he has always an arm above water)


Even thorpe is not perfect. I dont like his shoulder first arm entry he uses on the the non breathing side often, but at the same time he has an unique swimming instinct most of us can only dream about.

I think his 3 stage 2BK helps to keep his body level at the same height and transfer the weight of the recovering arm partially in forward propulsion.
He has a first stage in his 2BK where he braces and connects his body with his pull, then the leg is stable like a rudder while he shoves his body forward straight ahead, and when he lifts the arm out the water he catches a bit with the lead arm, and gives a small afterkick with the diagional feet at the other side of the catching arm.
This way he builds a diagonal bridge with upward force from the feet and the arm, that resist the downward force from the recovering arm.
Upward and downward forces balanced this way,.

Zenturtle 08-07-2018 11:05 PM

In pictures;

Thorpe balancing weight
upload to link

Thorpe transfering weight into backward pressure on the water without a lot of pulling.
upload pictures

Indeed, if you pull too early you cant use that weight anymore. If you pull too late you are also leaving that extra gift unused.
Having the right timing and the right paddle shape at the right timing. That can make a big differnce.

Zenturtle 08-07-2018 11:32 PM

In my view this guy is a little too late with setting up his anchor to be ready for catching the weight.
he has fallen back in the water and then starts to pull. He even bounces up a bit from his pull after he has sunk in, and thats not in his natural rhytm, meaning that its costing extra energy.

He is just on the edge. A little late, but not much. In the open water it looks better.His left arm at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m3ah7VNiUw

Or do TI coaches just like it this way?


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