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-   -   1500 Meter World Record - Its a TI Stroke! (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3476)

walstock 06-03-2012 08:45 PM

1500 Meter World Record - Its a TI Stroke!
 
Looks like a TI Swim to me. Relaxed, looong strokes, rhythmic snap kicks, good rotation, awesome streamline. Kind of funny to hear the traditional race announcers wondering how he had it in him to do a 54 second final 100 meters. HE hadn't expended any real energy kicking yet! Once he went into a traditional race kick and increased his turnover he could finish like it was a 200 instead of a 1500. Pretty awesome testament to the TI technique, even if no one is calling it that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRGtG...ure=watch-vrec

Richardsk 06-04-2012 07:40 AM

Hi walstock

Sun's stroke has been commented on here before and the similarities with the TI approach noted. However, it should also be borne in mind that even with his 'relaxed' stroke he had a lead of several seconds over the rest of the field and at the end of the race in Shanghai, after his amazing last 100 meters, he was ten seconds ahead of Ryan Cochrane, who is a top class swimmer with in my opinion a very nice-looking stroke, although admittedly not as nice as Sun's.

Sun is also a very fast 200 meter swimmer and clearly has a fantastic six-beat kick and grabs a lot of water with his long arms. the fact that he can lap consistently at under 30 seconds per 50 meter length with a stroke count of 27 or 28 sets him apart from just about everybody else in the world. The 1500 meter race will be one of the highlights of the London Olympics for me, and the finalists will probably all have to have swum below fifteen minutes.

So far this year only five swimmers have been below the 15-minute mark, Sun himself, Park of Korea, who is much shorter than Sun and may well not swim the 1500 in London but will probably concentrate on the shorter distances since he is competitive at the highest level at all distances from 50 up, the new star from Italy Gregorio Paltrinieri, Daniel Fogg of Great Britain, Yun Hao of China and David Davies, of Britain, who may be concentrating more on the open water swim.

A handful of other swimmers , including Chad La Tourette of the USA are capable of swimming under 15 minutes, but have not yet shown any form that makes them likely contenders for medals.

No doubt they're all beavering away, though, swimming thousands of meters a day.The position is probably somewhat like that in the sub four minute mile on the track . Once the barrier was broken there was an absolute avalanche of runners who could run under four minutes.

I think it's very likely that there will be a new world record in the 1500 this August, and it's most likely to come from Sun, but it's not an absolutely foregone conclusion.

The world rankings at swimnews.com make interesting reading:

http://www.swimnews.com/rank/index

CoachSuzanne 06-04-2012 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardsk (Post 28491)
Hi walstock

Sun's stroke has been commented on here before and the similarities with the TI approach noted. However, it should also be borne in mind that even with his 'relaxed' stroke he had a lead of several seconds over the rest of the field and at the end of the race in Shanghai, after his amazing last 100 meters, he was ten seconds ahead of Ryan Cochrane, who is a top class swimmer with in my opinion a very nice-looking stroke, although admittedly not as nice as Sun's.

Sun is also a very fast 200 meter swimmer and clearly has a fantastic six-beat kick and grabs a lot of water with his long arms. the fact that he can lap consistently at under 30 seconds per 50 meter length with a stroke count of 27 or 28 sets him apart from just about everybody else in the world. The 1500 meter race will be one of the highlights of the London Olympics for me, and the finalists will probably all have to have swum below fifteen minutes.

So far this year only five swimmers have been below the 15-minute mark, Sun himself, Park of Korea, who is much shorter than Sun and may well not swim the 1500 in London but will probably concentrate on the shorter distances since he is competitive at the highest level at all distances from 50 up, the new star from Italy Gregorio Paltrinieri, Daniel Fogg of Great Britain, Yun Hao of China and David Davies, of Britain, who may be concentrating more on the open water swim.

A handful of other swimmers , including Chad La Tourette of the USA are capable of swimming under 15 minutes, but have not yet shown any form that makes them likely contenders for medals.

No doubt they're all beavering away, though, swimming thousands of meters a day.The position is probably somewhat like that in the sub four minute mile on the track . Once the barrier was broken there was an absolute avalanche of runners who could run under four minutes.

I think it's very likely that there will be a new world record in the 1500 this August, and it's most likely to come from Sun, but it's not an absolutely foregone conclusion.

The world rankings at swimnews.com make interesting reading:

http://www.swimnews.com/rank/index

Richard, thanks for your play by play on this summer's contenders. going to be exciting for certain!

Richardsk 06-04-2012 06:21 PM

Yes, and let's hope they have plenty of underwater and overhead footage and the race in full, not a mere extract. Unfortunately, most viewers seem to find anything longer than 100 meters too long. Sprints are all very well but in my opinion 400 meters is where real swimming starts. ;-)

swim2Bfree 06-04-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walstock (Post 28484)
Looks like a TI Swim to me. Relaxed, looong strokes, rhythmic snap kicks, good rotation, awesome streamline. Kind of funny to hear the traditional race announcers wondering how he had it in him to do a 54 second final 100 meters. HE hadn't expended any real energy kicking yet! Once he went into a traditional race kick and increased his turnover he could finish like it was a 200 instead of a 1500. Pretty awesome testament to the TI technique, even if no one is calling it that.

Different strokes for different folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YrZXqBKwuc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0iRKR7DCuQ&t=0m22s

Richardsk 06-04-2012 09:54 PM

Nice videos!

Janet Evans was and is wonderful and I have her book Total Swimming - a bit of borrowing there, perhaps? Her stroke is totally individual, though, and definitely not to be imitated. Amazing head lift on breathing stroke.

David Davies (of Wales, not England) hasn't actually swum under 15 minutes yet this year, so in fact only four swimmers have done it. He did do 15:00.73, which is as near as dammit but not quite near enough and nowhere near Sun's record time.

The US trials are coming soon. Will we see a sub 15 minute 1500?

CoachSuzanne 06-05-2012 01:20 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Commentator: "She's focusing on what's happening under the water and obviously, that's the only thing that matters."

Yes, the only thing that matters in this race to determine who is fastest. See attached screenshot...this is a fully unnatural body position that no one should try to emulate on purpose. Lots of swimmers will be "double jointed" with lax shoulder capsules and can get away with swimming this way.

Janet Evans is probably the only person in the world who can STILL SWIM after so much training with stroke. She is an anomoly just like Sun Yang is. SUn Yang's stroke is much more teachable and sustainable for the majority of swimmers, especially adult onset swimmers.

grandall 06-05-2012 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardsk (Post 28491)
Hi walstock

Sun's stroke has been commented on here before and the similarities with the TI approach noted. However, it should also be borne in mind that even with his 'relaxed' stroke he had a lead of several seconds over the rest of the field and at the end of the race in Shanghai, after his amazing last 100 meters, he was ten seconds ahead of Ryan Cochrane, who is a top class swimmer with in my opinion a very nice-looking stroke, although admittedly not as nice as Sun's.

Sun is also a very fast 200 meter swimmer and clearly has a fantastic six-beat kick and grabs a lot of water with his long arms. the fact that he can lap consistently at under 30 seconds per 50 meter length with a stroke count of 27 or 28 sets him apart from just about everybody else in the world. The 1500 meter race will be one of the highlights of the London Olympics for me, and the finalists will probably all have to have swum below fifteen minutes.

So far this year only five swimmers have been below the 15-minute mark, Sun himself, Park of Korea, who is much shorter than Sun and may well not swim the 1500 in London but will probably concentrate on the shorter distances since he is competitive at the highest level at all distances from 50 up, the new star from Italy Gregorio Paltrinieri, Daniel Fogg of Great Britain, Yun Hao of China and David Davies, of Britain, who may be concentrating more on the open water swim.

A handful of other swimmers , including Chad La Tourette of the USA are capable of swimming under 15 minutes, but have not yet shown any form that makes them likely contenders for medals.

No doubt they're all beavering away, though, swimming thousands of meters a day.The position is probably somewhat like that in the sub four minute mile on the track . Once the barrier was broken there was an absolute avalanche of runners who could run under four minutes.

I think it's very likely that there will be a new world record in the 1500 this August, and it's most likely to come from Sun, but it's not an absolutely foregone conclusion.

The world rankings at swimnews.com make interesting reading:

http://www.swimnews.com/rank/index

Richard,
Thanks for sharing the link

swim2Bfree 06-05-2012 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne (Post 28514)
Sun Yang's stroke is much more teachable and sustainable for the majority of swimmers, especially adult onset swimmers.

The truly "sustainable" swim stroke is one that is tailored to the individual swimmer, and which facilitates both optimal speed and joy in the process. That is why Janet Evans is still swimming in her 40s, and still qualifying for Olympic Trials.

Personally, I do not find it joyful to practice a stroke that is ill-suited to my body. I am neither a 6-foot-6 Chinese man, nor a 5-foot-4 woman with a million dollar smile :)

It's true, though - an individually tailored stroke is less "teachable" in a mass production setting.

jriley 06-05-2012 05:25 AM

So much of Sun's stroke exemplifies TI principles - the distinct glide, lower turnover, DPS, and minimized kick (until he hits the gas in the last 100) are at odds with what so many current distance coaches and TI critics pooh-pooh. But Sun combines the TI-like aspects with a classic vertical-forearm catch and pull - though not as "early" given the more pronounced glide. His extension is notable as well - he "spears" straight ahead and horizontal, not downward, to set up that catch, and on every single stroke at extension his front hand and fingers are upwardly tipped - the "Diana Ross" maneuver that virtually all technique experts consider a drag flaw. Not that every little detail is either to be emulated or matters a great deal . . . but it is interesting to see the details when we have video this good. The OP's point is solid - this is a very "TI" kind of stroke, not so often seen at this level.


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