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-   -   Need Stroke Advice (Video Included) (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9513)

WFEGb 09-13-2018 04:45 PM

Hello ZT,

Quote:

You have the same problem as Sam, you are overpulling.
See the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeHQyqI7zq0
Yes, Suzanne's video and her hints are great! But I think RamTI's issue is also a bit more fundamental in the BS-Basics. The Uchimura drills are really good for a stronger core (tested them myself with result muscleache...) but I think they shouldn't be used as "additional TI-drills", because they're forcing unwanted movements with coupled(right?) diagonal.

Best regards,
Werner

Mushroomfloat 09-13-2018 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFEGb (Post 66523)
Hello ZT,


Yes, Suzanne's video and her hints are great! But I think RamTI's issue is also a bit more fundamental in the BS-Basics. The Uchimura drills are really good for a stronger core (tested them myself with result muscleache...) but I think they shouldn't be used as "additional TI-drills", because they're forcing unwanted movements with coupled(right?) diagonal.

Best regards,
Werner

Yes, that looks like arm coupling (shoulder driven style) coupled together across the upper back
/ traps and working in unison
You cant go back too far with this type of stroke or lengthen out as you lose the connection across the upper back.

Its good for a rapid turover though.

I taught a ladyfriend freestyle at the pool last night and she naturally adopted this type of coupled arm stroke as a beginner

i got her to try taking the "pull" back further but it messed up her rudimentary recovery back to the front.
She did really well though once we did front SG glide and balance drills, she was blown away at how easy it was with a level body position v legs dragging.
She had better balance than me!!

Zenturtle 09-13-2018 09:05 PM

Hmmm, I do agree the execution of the transition to swimming looks a bit upperbodydriven.Legs dangle a bit too much perhaps.
And also the up-down movement of the whipping legs lend itself better to higher strokerates perhaps.

But when i focus on the diagonal twisting drive from opposite leg to other side arm i always get some extra powerboost in my swimming.
Be it hipdriven ore more shoulder driven.
Dont you guys agree on that? And thats the main thing he is training.

Mushroomfloat 09-13-2018 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenturtle (Post 66526)
Hmmm, I do agree the execution of the transition to swimming looks a bit upperbodydriven.Legs dangle a bit too much perhaps.
And also the up-down movement of the whipping legs lend itself better to higher strokerates perhaps.

But when i focus on the diagonal twisting drive from opposite leg to other side arm i always get some extra powerboost in my swimming.
Be it hipdriven ore more shoulder driven.
Dont you guys agree on that? And thats the main thing he is training.

Yes, absolutley its all about seimming from the trunk (core) inside out etc
these days i find myself morphing between hip driven & shoulder driven as i go along trying things out.

sometimes i favour the long lazy hip driven and other times i favour just pulling myself along with a fast shoulder driven turnover.

im torn between the great streamlining of the long FQS and the continious propulsion of shoulder driven / kayak style

Mushroomfloat 09-13-2018 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroomfloat (Post 66527)
Yes, absolutley its all about seimming from the trunk (core) inside out etc
these days i find myself morphing between hip driven & shoulder driven as i go along trying things out.

sometimes i favour the long lazy hip driven and other times i favour just pulling myself along with a fast shoulder driven turnover.

im torn between the great streamlining of the long FQS and the continious propulsion of shoulder driven / kayak style

i find im shifting more to traditional high elbow recovery on the long style and a butterfly style recovery on the shorter stroke

Mushroomfloat 09-13-2018 09:17 PM

might be something to do with tye long stroke giving more rotation to allow for a HER

Mushroomfloat 09-13-2018 09:22 PM

or just the fact that to get a HER you need to "finish your stroke"

WFEGb 09-13-2018 11:11 PM

Hello ZT,

nothing against a stretch along your diagonal as using the kick left to find your (short timed) diagonal stretch to your right hand. Terry advocates this in his 2BK-chapter. But especially the first drill forces long leg kick left and long arm right down, that's just not Terry's diagonal stretch.


Hello MF,

seems you're swimming on a level, where you can switch by decision every part of your stroke at any time. Respect! Same question I asked ZT, what does lead you to your decisions, and how do you decide what to lay back and what to carry on?

I am even more critical , if that's the right (best?) way to teach beginners with these details and not confusing them. Are they really able to carry these in there whole stroke for longer time? OK, I do trust Terry and TI's BSP-Pyramide with some indvidual tayloring from knowing Terry and his decade-developments and some modest successes with it in own swimming and coaching. But I've to add, I'm not able to swim myself nor is any of my students (till now) able to swim in paces of the swimmers you like to discuss their stroke(part)s.


Hello Stuart,

no, 1:30 pace or faster for 100m is not what I'm able to swim all day and never as sustainable pace... So you might think, it's better for me to shut up. Nope, too much fun to follow these threads and throw in a thought one and then FWIW, might be sometimes 2ct...

And I do not appreciate the occasional unfriendliness in any way. Happy they're seldom here measured with other Forums.

Best regards,
Werner

CoachStuartMcDougal 09-13-2018 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFEGb (Post 66531)

Hello Stuart,

no, 1:30 pace or faster for 100m is not what I'm able to swim all day and never as sustainable pace... So you might think, it's better for me to shut up. Nope, too much fun to follow these threads and throw in a thought one and then FWIW, might be sometimes 2ct...

And I do not appreciate the occasional unfriendliness in any way. Happy they're seldom here measured with other Forums.

Best regards,
Werner

Did I offend you in some way Werner? If I have, I apologize. But I don't recall discussing swimming/sustaining a 1:30 pace with you; then again I'm getting old, my short term mem often fleeting.

Stuart
mindbodyandswim.com

Mushroomfloat 09-13-2018 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFEGb (Post 66531)
Hello ZT,

nothing against a stretch along your diagonal as using the kick left to find your (short timed) diagonal stretch to your right hand. Terry advocates this in his 2BK-chapter. But especially the first drill forces long leg kick left and long arm right down, that's just not Terry's diagonal stretch.


Hello MF,

seems you're swimming on a level, where you can switch by decision every part of your stroke at any time. Respect! Same question I asked ZT, what does lead you to your decisions, and how do you decide what to lay back and what to carry on?

I am even more critical , if that's the right (best?) way to teach beginners with these details and not confusing them. Are they really able to carry these in there whole stroke for longer time? OK, I do trust Terry and TI's BSP-Pyramide with some indvidual tayloring from knowing Terry and his decade-developments and some modest successes with it in own swimming and coaching. But I've to add, I'm not able to swim myself nor is any of my students (till now) able to swim in paces of the swimmers you like to discuss their stroke(part)s.



Best regards,
Werner

Hi yes, she had watched "faster freestyle" by dave marsh and had her head filled with images of rocketing along like an elite swimmer lol

so i started her off with kicking on side balance drills which she didnt take to, but she is a physiotherapist and understood scapular plane / impingement etc so we went to SG Glide and i said "just start pulling yourself along" and she got it pretty much straight away (much to my chargrin)
then the.next hurdle was breathing
i didn't want to baffle her with stroke timing and evf etc yet
but she'll make a good freestyler
very concious about core etc


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