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andyinnorway 07-28-2013 06:49 PM

Fina World Champs Barcelona
If every race is as good as that men's 4x100m then I'm not going out much this week. The russian in the final leg was staring at the USA swimmer every stroke and the frenchmen just swam past him, he had no idea, great race, brilliant TV.

Richardsk 07-28-2013 10:33 PM

Hi Andy

Found it on youtube. Don't know if it's viewable everywhere but OK in UK.

Not top quality and commentary in Hungarian. Lovely language but I'm afraid I don't understand more than one or two words. A worthwhile project for me old age. ;-)

Richardsk 07-28-2013 10:57 PM

And here's the women's 400m final, with Katie Ledecky leading them all. It must be very disheartening for her competitors to see her tearing away and not having the good grace to die on the last length.

terry 07-29-2013 03:20 AM

On the men's 4x100, two US swimmers made the same mistake that cost the US gold in the same event in (2004?) Olympics v. Australia. Overswimming the first leg. Repeatedly the US would pull to a large lead the first 50, then give it back the 2nd 50.
The Russian overswam the first 50 on the final leg and faded badly down the stretch.
Thirty-odd years ago, I taught even 11-12s to be conscious of the 'adrenaline effect' and control opening half of relay legs. It's dismaying to see elites fall prey to it.

US Mens splits
Nathan Adrian 22.31 47.95 (+3.6)
LOCHTE*Ryan 22.47 47.80 (+2.9)
ERVIN*Anthony 21.76 47.44 (+4.0)
FEIGEN*James 22.73 48.23 (+2.9)
Optimal differential between 1st and 2nd 50 in 100m is about 2 sec. Allow .5 sec for relay start and optimal differential on relay would be 2.5, with a small fudge factor to 3.0. Lochte and Feigen are inside that. Adrian and Ervin way over. More control on 1st 50 might have made the difference between silver and gold.

And I'll bet there are swimmers who didn't make the relay because of poor pacing who--with a smarter pace--might have made it better.

terry 07-29-2013 03:31 AM


Originally Posted by Richardsk (Post 41595)
And here's the women's 400m final, with Katie Ledecky leading them all.

I like her swimming. Very controlled stroke. I counted a few lengths. She took 40 strokes on her 4th length, then held 39 on 5-6-7, finishing at 40 on the last length. Excellent SL for a woman.

Richardsk 07-29-2013 10:09 AM

Hi Terry

Interesting observations on the differentials between first and second 50s, and I believe correct. Going too fast on the first 50 is a common mistake, even among elites. They are young and impetuous, as I suppose sprinters ought to be, but learning to rein in the impetuosity should be part of their training. Relays are very exciting at any level but on a great occasion such as Worlds they must b even more so.

As for Ledecky, she is wonderful, but I wonder if she had taken it a bit easier in the opening laps whether she might not have beaten the world record. No doubt she will in due course. She was well ahead of the world record line for the first three 100s. A very clean stroke too, with not much splash and not much wake from the feet.

terry 07-29-2013 01:05 PM

Here, for comparison and perhaps analysis, is the women's 4x100 relay, with a terrific final leg from Megan Romano after Cate Campbell had seemed to open up an unassailable lead on the first leg.[/url]

Super swims by both Natalie Coughlin and Romano. The number of sub-53 splits in textile is very encouraging.

I wonder if Katie might have closed more strongly, without sacrificing early speed, if she'd swum 39SPL, maybe even 38, in laps 2-3-4 by a focus on swimming with an even quieter, cleaner stroke -- I.e. even less water disturbance. Move water a bit less. Move Katie a bit more.

A differential of +2 SPL over 50m is pretty reasonable in the 400 and gives the swimmer the ability to close very fast. Sun Yang was +4 SPL in the last 50 of his 1500, compared to what he'd done while swimming at more sustainable (yet still very fast) pace earlier in the race. And he's much taller.

The ability to deploy racing/pacing tactics such as this is why I love 'gears' practice. 30+ years ago I had my breaststrokers practice a range as low as 10SPL and as high as 20SPL in a 50m pool and they were super-successful racers at both 100 and 200m and noteworthy for strong finishes, by having the ability to greatly increase tempo and power without sacrificing efficiency in final quarter. At 10SPL in 50m, you have to be very conscious of NOT moving the water around.

It's a learnable skill.

terry 07-29-2013 01:07 PM

My apologies. I meant to quote you from the post on which you put up links to 4x100 women and I seem to somehow have edited instead. Or deleted. Or something. Now your post is missing.

But thanks for searching for and posting those links.

Richardsk 07-29-2013 03:59 PM

No problem

Here it is again:

andyinnorway 07-30-2013 06:01 PM

Left right splits?
Another fantastic battle with Ledecky and Friis in the 1500m.

It made me wonder, Friis looks very even left to right, but Ledecky looks to take a shorter stroke on the left to the right as a lot of the elite guys seem to do this week.

Do the coaches at this level measure this difference and is the information available to us?

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