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  #1  
Old 09-10-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Zenturtle
Default The Peaty revolution.

Breaststroke will change now. Peatys stroke is different than the other ones.
His teether tother between hips and head is far more ¨pronounced than other swimmers.ITs all high rev communicating masses in a more vertical direction. No long strokes anymore.
A short pumping action that looks like a blend of power and rhythm that doesnt look like streamlined fishlike swimming anymore.
It looks like a unique human invented way to move through the water.
Streamline is still important in the water offcourse, but the basic action looks very earthbased. reminds me of babys action trying to move forward when legs are in a sack, bouncing forward in a very crude snakelike action.
Breastroke is more and more moving to an upperbody dominated sport, together with a strong core action, legs only used as a ratched mechanism to anchor and lock the potential energy from the extreme upperbody lifting to stop and prevent it slip backward, but anchor and launch forward to the next upperbody dominated action.
Peaty is not looking longer than he actually is in the water, but shorter.
Going to try this extreme style more in my swims and try to make it work. Think I have to go to the gym now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsGHSe6N06w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIY...8#t=186.779788

Last edited by Zenturtle : 09-10-2016 at 11:12 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-15-2016
ScoopUK
 
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Default

Yeah it's an interesting progression.

Hips are connected to the head via the spine. If you get the head high the hips will slide further forward in a powerful upper body driven stroke. The traditional method has been outdated at an elite level for sprint athletes for years now.

Interestingly butterfly is going the other way and they are trying to stay as flat as possible, no body dolphins or undulations which cause drag. Even the terminology is deliberately changing, the kick is commonly referred to as a 'double leg kick' not 'dolphin kick' to get people out that mindset.

I still think there is a place for low sleek streamlined breaststroke, you still see it in the longer distance races and particularly in individual medley where energy conservation is important. Plus what the elites do isn't necessarily relevant to the masses.
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  #3  
Old 09-28-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Zenturtle
Default

29 strokes for the second 50 m. What a crazy stroke. But its fast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_mfkw5OFR4
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  #4  
Old 01-24-2017
ScoopUK
 
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Been watching some more breaststroke videos as now we are in the winter off season I am trying to improve strokes other than freestyle and enjoying playing around...

In this video you can see Kevin Cordes (USA: Lane 6) with a really long elegant stroke. It's beautiful to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZdmboO94tk
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2017
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopUK View Post
Been watching some more breaststroke videos as now we are in the winter off season I am trying to improve strokes other than freestyle and enjoying playing around...

In this video you can see Kevin Cordes (USA: Lane 6) with a really long elegant stroke. It's beautiful to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZdmboO94tk
As I was watching this video, I was reminded of a story Terry once told of practicing with a masters group while he was travelling. At one point, one of the other swimmers approached him and asked "How can you be keeping up with us? You don't seem to be doing anything!" Compared with the other swimmers, Cordes definitely doesn't seem to be doing anything. His stroke is living proof that extending stroke length is as valid in breaststroke as it is in freestyle.

Thanks for sharing!


Bob
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  #6  
Old 01-30-2017
liolio
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopUK View Post
Been watching some more breaststroke videos as now we are in the winter off season I am trying to improve strokes other than freestyle and enjoying playing around...

In this video you can see Kevin Cordes (USA: Lane 6) with a really long elegant stroke. It's beautiful to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZdmboO94tk
Indeed pretty incredible gliding /streamline. he achieves the second place with possibly the slowest stroke rate of all 8 swimmers.

one thing he shares with Peaty is the extremely clean "exit" of the water when breathing, I suspect their is a fine technical thing behind it.
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2017
ScoopUK
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liolio View Post
Indeed pretty incredible gliding /streamline. he achieves the second place with possibly the slowest stroke rate of all 8 swimmers.
His kick isn't all that narrow either. Often breaststrokers talk about keeping their knees close together and using more the lower leg and turned out feet but whatever he is doing is working for him very well. He gets back to streamline very quickly compared to the high-out-the-water guys.

I particularly like breaststroke for the variety in stroke that you see. You got the powerful front end man-mountains like Peaty, Van De Burgh etc then you got the smaller framed rear end driven folk. Some have wide kicks, some have narrow. Some have a very wide powerful outsweep, some tight and short.

I realised by accident I was actually swimming the same or faster pace breaststroke when I relaxed my stroke and was doing my cool down. Instead of applying loads of torque at the front end which lifted my body up I would do a small outsweep just to take a lazy easy breath then sink bank into streamline and by not kicking so aggressively I would catch the water better with my feet. Seeing the tiles whizzing past for less effort was a lightbulb moment.

What I hope is that the powerful stroke (and physiques) we see today isn't shamed tomorrow in the same way that in the cycling world high cadence cycling became vogue (which works very well if you have a non-naturally enhanced ability to carry oxygen in your blood). Thankfully the swimming world seems to be holding up to the additional scrutiny of historic anti-doping re-tests. It's more the athletics and weight lifting scene that is getting embarrassed.
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  #8  
Old 01-31-2017
liolio
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopUK View Post
His kick isn't all that narrow either. Often breaststrokers talk about keeping their knees close together and using more the lower leg and turned out feet but whatever he is doing is working for him very well. He gets back to streamline very quickly compared to the high-out-the-water guys.
i did not notice but that is a wide and powerful kick, like all his others movements, it generates few splashes and visible surfaces turbulences. He is as smooth as he gets.

As for getting back into streamline, I suspect it is a technical trait he share with Peaty. I wonder in the pool no long ago if Peaty gets elevation foremost for the combined action of inertia and back muscles. Arms are supporting the motion, providing grip or plateau for the motion. Peaty gets its elbow close to its body but I suspect it is more combined effort of arms catching the water and the body inertia, I could say he sort of climb onto the plateau formed by his hand (which in turn support a back and inertia driven movement, think doing "the bridge").
I think the focus of that part of the stroke is to create as few turbulences and drag as possible. In video that part of the stroke last till Peaty has its hand facing down.
Then there is a quick catch of water with peaty rotating hands and forearms inward. I think that generate a tipping point from where the potential energy accumulated through elevation is oriented downward and soon after forward as arm are pushed forward.

I suspect there could be no (arm) "pull" in theirs techniques. I tried for myself, once the movement is back and inertia driven, the arms movement and recovery generates next to no turbulences and drags (or so it feels like it). The (arched) back also act as a spring.
Try for yourself, I'm not sure that "this is it" but there is an interesting feel
It explains Peaty high stroke rate, (he may have been under gliding actually as some of his race showcased). The guy is muscular, big shoulders and arms but I would bet the trick is more in his core body (back).

Koch and Peaty techniques could be closer than it looks, Peaty sprints with narrower leg movement, and more stamina put into elevating his upper body, whereas Koch do a relaxed version of the same take on breaststroke on longer distances:
less upper body elevation but strong focus on generating no turbulence with arms in front of him, wider kick, which result in slower stroke rate and more gliding.

Quote:
I particularly like breaststroke for the variety in stroke that you see.
Indeed not the fastest stroke around but technically it is interesting and it feels good, the perceived acceleration when entering water (from breathing) feels really good, so does the glide.

I agree about relaxation, in swimming overall, I toyed with my kick the other day and I found out that pass a given speed I can retain water anyway so pushing to hard has no benefit, actually it creates fatigues, turbulences, etc.

Swimming is interesting I'm happy I discovered it. I'm more interesting in its mechanic and feel and there is a lot to dig :)
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2017
liolio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Over enthusiasm

Oh well, back from the pool. I realize what I wrote was stupid... you need to generate force from your arm that is for sure, especially if you score a 55s per 100m, even with magical feet... it would be dark magic... lol

Now as an exercise I think pulling from the back (core) and trying to minimize the drag from the arm outsweep and insweep is indeed a good exercise as I think it helped me to use a better way.

I' m not sure what about what I'm doing now but it is "tighter" and feels more efficient.
A dominant feeling is that when I break the streamline I instantly feel pressure in my palm (each facing a side of the pool) and the pressure is maintained as I "flip" them as my elbows are getting to my core body. I'm careful not to let the movement get my hand deep in the water and I also notice that I stop the motion to get into fast and proper recovery (elbow within the width of my body) then I spear forward. If I do the motion to completely it generates too much turbulence and elevation I find it detrimental to the forward motion. The outsweep is minimal which does not mean that I don't feel water pressure in may hand while doing it.

Now I've no idea if Peaty does this or that /enthusiast beginner caught into over thinking... lol
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