elbow angle prior to catch

[CharlesCouturier]

Originally Posted by andyinnorway

Charles, thanks for posting everything multiple times, I always need to read these things twice to understand them, that's why I am a piano player not a professor.

sorry mate, computer glitch :)

Originally Posted by andyinnorway

In the UK I would guess there were around 200,000 u18 swimmers doing 5 or more sessions a week but I don't think there would be more than 200 of them posting a sub 60s 100m? All these numbers totally made up but would be great to find some actual stats.

That would be very unlikely. At 17yo, most kids training 5 times per week and having began at early age are swimming U60sec.

By 15 Andy, you already fancy getting your youths standards, eastern standards here this year is 1:00.41, and that, just gets you to access the competition. From there there are multiple waves of prelims, most will go U60sec. By 16yo already, just east of our country, if you want to make it to the competition itself, you have to do 59.51 or faster! Imagine at age 17, if you're not already under 58sec, you're a no name east of our country, not even sure you qualify for the competition itself with such a slow time.

And oh by the way, these times above were for females. LOL (got ya). If you're unfortunate enough to be a boy, at age 16 you need to swim 55sec over 100m just to get your pass to this eastern national standard competitions, and it goes down to 53 if you're 17yo. You got to do 2:00 for 200 at age 16, and 1:57 the year after. Needless to say that there are hundreds of young swimmers that are under 60s, but not down to 53sec yet.

We won only a few medals in London, Brits earned several compared to us, so.

https://www.swimming.ca/nationaltimestandards

In fact, it is very easy to go under 60sec Andy, most boys having trained for 5-6 consecutive years will reach this way before age 15, here in our province. This is just local club sort of performance, displayed by those who can compete at the provincial (not national) level. Girls will generally be faster than most boys until age 13 (at most), as females grow up faster between age 10-12, oddly enough. Then boys will catch up. In fact, most girls having swam for around 8-9 years will swim sub 60sec by age 17.

Another fun thing, it's not uncommon for a little 10yo to go under 30 over 50m, and that's quite fun to look at, it looks surreal a bit, but it's common, both boys and girls.

[Richardsk]

http://www.swimmingresults.org/12months/

Here's a link to the British Swimming rankings page where you can see how fast the thirteen-year-olds can swim and eat your heart out.

I keep getting these emails telling me about great new discoveries that can reverse ageing. It's things like this that make one want to try these snake oils.

[aquarius]

Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne

Haha..yeah, I counted some 2BK, but also mostly a 4BK and once in a while there might have been 6 beats in the first 1400...there was a definite change from the final 100m, but if he categorizes the entire first 1400 kick as a 2BK then he's way overgeneralizing.

I'm wondering how the 4BK synchronizes with the arms. In 2BK [and 6BK], I see how the same leg kicks each time with the (opposite) spearing hand.

RHS - LFK [+ RFK + LFK]
LHS - RFK [+LFK + RFK]

How do you fit two kicks on each arm stroke without ending up on the wrong leg every other cycle?

Thanks.

[Richardsk]

Originally Posted by aquarius

I'm wondering how the 4BK synchronizes with the arms. In 2BK [and 6BK], I see how the same leg kicks each time with the (opposite) spearing hand.

RHS - LFK [+ RFK + LFK]
LHS - RFK [+LFK + RFK]

How do you fit two kicks on each arm stroke without ending up on the wrong leg every other cycle?

Thanks.

The answer is that you don't. The normal four-beat is made up of three kicks on one side and one on the other. I don't think anybody divides the kicks up evenly. Basically the rhythm is the same as the six-beat but Ba-ba-ba Ba-a-a instead of Ba-ba-ba-Ba-ba-ba. However, having read in Prof. Rushall's analysis that Federica Pellegrini has a five-beat kick, it wouldn't surprise me too much to discover that somebody out there is doing an evenly divided four-beat.

[aquarius]

Originally Posted by Richardsk

The answer is that you don't. The normal four-beat is made up of three kicks on one side and one on the other. I don't think anybody divides the kicks up evenly. Basically the rhythm is the same as the six-beat but Ba-ba-ba Ba-a-a instead of Ba-ba-ba-Ba-ba-ba. However, having read in Prof. Rushall's analysis that Federica Pellegrini has a five-beat kick, it wouldn't surprise me too much to discover that somebody out there is doing an evenly divided four-beat.

I see, thanks for the explanation. And how does this dissymmetrical 4BK fit in with the breathing?

Thanks.

[andyinnorway]

Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier

sorry mate, computer glitch :)

That would be very unlikely. At 17yo, most kids training 5 times per week and having began at early age are swimming U60sec.

By 15 Andy, you already fancy getting your youths standards, eastern standards here this year is 1:00.41, and that, just gets you to access the competition. From there there are multiple waves of prelims, most will go U60sec. By 16yo already, just east of our country, if you want to make it to the competition itself, you have to do 59.51 or faster! Imagine at age 17, if you're not already under 58sec, you're a no name east of our country, not even sure you qualify for the competition itself with such a slow time.

And oh by the way, these times above were for females. LOL (got ya). If you're unfortunate enough to be a boy, at age 16 you need to swim 55sec over 100m just to get your pass to this eastern national standard competitions, and it goes down to 53 if you're 17yo. You got to do 2:00 for 200 at age 16, and 1:57 the year after. Needless to say that there are hundreds of young swimmers that are under 60s, but not down to 53sec yet.

We won only a few medals in London, Brits earned several compared to us, so.

https://www.swimming.ca/nationaltimestandards

In fact, it is very easy to go under 60sec Andy, most boys having trained for 5-6 consecutive years will reach this way before age 15, here in our province. This is just local club sort of performance, displayed by those who can compete at the provincial (not national) level. Girls will generally be faster than most boys until age 13 (at most), as females grow up faster between age 10-12, oddly enough. Then boys will catch up. In fact, most girls having swam for around 8-9 years will swim sub 60sec by age 17.

Another fun thing, it's not uncommon for a little 10yo to go under 30 over 50m, and that's quite fun to look at, it looks surreal a bit, but it's common, both boys and girls.

Then all I have discovered is that my old swimming club isn't doing great these days?

[andyinnorway]

Actually I just read your link and further challenge you to tell me what the 11th percentile time would be in each age group since the national times you posted are the rolling average for 24th or 32nd place in the country.

I'm sure there are more than 500 people in the UK who can swim under 60s but that's not a lot as a percentage of regular swimmers?

[andyinnorway]

One more thing, the percentage slow down from men's 400m track world record to 5000m is 40% whereas in swimming from Cielo to Sun Yang its only 23% so I still don't think these 1500m boys are dragging their feet.

[CharlesCouturier]

Originally Posted by andyinnorway

Actually I just read your link and further challenge you to tell me what the 11th percentile time would be in each age group since the national times you posted are the rolling average for 24th or 32nd place in the country.

Andy, I'll leave you run as many stats calculation as you'd like. I just gave you my perspective, that of someone having worked with these age groups swimmers for several consecutive years. And moreover, that was between 1988 and 1996, so can you imagine how things are nowadays with the progress made with swimming technique etc...

Like I said, though we usually celebrate a bit their first sub 60, this is not even that much of a big thing, as like I said, it's very easy for sub18 (17 or less) to go under 60. It's in fact very hard to miss this target, regardless of the talent (you don't need strong genetic background for this) when, like I said, you accumulate at least 5 years of experience, of good swimming that is.

So if in your mind you imagine a guy that begin swimming at age 11 for instance (that's a bit of a late start), and still struggling going under 60s at age 16, forget it it's almost impossible. From 11 to 16yo, this guy is certainly under 60sec already, other wise that club is doing a very bad job.

Originally Posted by andyinnorway

I'm sure there are more than 500 people in the UK who can swim under 60s but that's not a lot as a percentage of regular swimmers?

You'd have to define regular swimmer here, which makes almost impossible to run your percentile calculation.

Regular swimmers, usually don't hang out on discussion forums, they swim. And usually, they go under 60sec. Now red cross swimmers, leisure swimmers, that I don't know, they don't even fancy this sort of performance.

[CharlesCouturier]

Originally Posted by Richardsk

http://www.swimmingresults.org/12months/
Here's a link to the British Swimming rankings page where you can see how fast the thirteen-year-olds can swim and eat your heart out.

Here's a swim final, boys, 12yo, won sub 59, LCM, which would translate into 57.5 or possibly faster SCM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVuh0cSZUoY