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  #1  
Old 08-03-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Default Sun Yang Awesome

Today was the day and we were lucky enough to join the other 17,496 people in the aquatic centre to watch amongst others Sun Yang's 1500m qualification.

He was beyond awesome.

Sun went in the last of 4 qualifications and so had the benefit of seeing the previous fastest qualifier was 14.50

He strolled through 32 lengths at 26.5SPL! and posted 14.48

The precision of each length was even more apparent at the live event compared to the TV. He starts his underwater stroke just out of the 5m line and by the time it comes around for his first spear entry he is nearly at 9m.

He crosses the 25m line halfway through stroke 12 each lap and then at the end he completes stroke 26 followed by his funny quick half stroke into the tumble.

My guess would be that he train with a TT and bases a length on 30SPL including turns and push off. i.e. 1.5 for push off, 1 for underwater stroke, 26 normal, 0.5 funny one, and 1 for turn. His 26.5SPL is in comparison to the others averaging 38-42.

Its a world class advertisement for the benefits of a TI approach.

Its was a brilliant experience and the whole setup of the London games was stunning, the park is great, the transport all worked without queuing, we had a seat in a restaurant for lunch and the noise and atmosphere inside the aquatic centre was deafening.

Only wish I was going to the remaining sessions.

Looking forward to tomorrow night, based on form today it looked like China, Tunisia and Canada for the medals.

Also as an aside we noticed that only the top 4 or 5 swimmers had an even stroke, the others had a very pronounced shorter/quicker stroke on the breathing side. (see the mexican who won heat 1 for the best example of this if its on youtube).
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Do you know if Paltrinieri qualified to be there tomorrow? I'm not even sure if he's in London 2012. What I do know is that he posted 14:49 LCM recently, which would have been enough to not only qualify, but potentially push Ryan (the Canadian) off the Podium...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV_10f1qv_U
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2012
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Herewith line-up for final:

01 JAEGER Connor 14:57.56 (heat 3 , 3rd)
02 FOGG Daniel 14:56.12 (heat 2, 2nd)
03 COCHRANE Ryan 14:49.31 (heat 3, 1st)
04 SUN Yang 14:43.25 (heat 4, 1st)
05 MELLOULI Oussama 14:46.23 (heat 4, 2nd)
06 PALTRINIERI Gregorio 14:50.11 (heat 2, 1st)
07 PARK Taehwan 14:56.89 (heat 3, 2nd)
08 SAWRYMOWICZ Mateusz 14:57.59 (heat 2, 3rd)

Gemmell in heat 4 was unlucky to miss out with 14:59.05


It looks like Sun for gold and Mellouli for silver, with bronze to Paltrinieri, Cochrane, Fogg or Park - or maybe even Jaeger or Sawrymowicz.

Who knows, though? Sun looks like a certainty for gold. His heat was masterful. Paltrinieri and Cochrane also looked very good in their heats. Mellouli could have been taking it easy in heat 4 and letting Sun do all the hard work but Sun made it look easy and was hardly breathing heavily at all at the end..
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2012
swim2Bfree swim2Bfree is offline
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Interesting commentary from the Australian Olympic swimmer Nicole Livingstone during the NBC live feed of the penultimate heat of the 1500m prelims:

[Nicole Livingstone] I just wanted to point out, underwater, Ryan Cochrane's kick... He's kept that 6 beat kick going... So it's quite a fast kick for 1500. Once upon a time they used to just drag their feet with a very slow two beat kick for balance, and that really changed with [Kieren] Perkins and Glen Housman from Australia, trying to bring in a six beat kick.

[Bruce McAvaney] Do you think that's an effective way of swimming?

[NL] Yeah, I do. I think the way the boys have changed the stroke of the 1500, by using that faster kick, it just makes sense. Salnikov and those guys, when i raced the 1500... it was very much about a fast kick in and out of the walls, and just the floating two beat kick.

[BM] Times have got quicker and techniques have changed.
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  #5  
Old 08-03-2012
Rincewind Rincewind is offline
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I dont know if anybody noticed, but even Ryan Lochte was also looking very TI-esque in the warm down pool getting ready for the 200 IM.
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2012
JC_Yang JC_Yang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swim2Bfree View Post
Interesting commentary from the Australian Olympic swimmer Nicole Livingstone during the NBC live feed of the penultimate heat of the 1500m prelims:

[Nicole Livingstone] I just wanted to point out, underwater, Ryan Cochrane's kick... He's kept that 6 beat kick going... So it's quite a fast kick for 1500. Once upon a time they used to just drag their feet with a very slow two beat kick for balance, and that really changed with [Kieren] Perkins and Glen Housman from Australia, trying to bring in a six beat kick.

[Bruce McAvaney] Do you think that's an effective way of swimming?

[NL] Yeah, I do. I think the way the boys have changed the stroke of the 1500, by using that faster kick, it just makes sense. Salnikov and those guys, when i raced the 1500... it was very much about a fast kick in and out of the walls, and just the floating two beat kick.

[BM] Times have got quicker and techniques have changed.
Sun Yang will disprove his comment tonight(hence once again prove the correctness of TI), completely.
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  #7  
Old 08-04-2012
swim2Bfree swim2Bfree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_Yang View Post
Sun Yang will disprove his comment tonight(hence once again prove the correctness of TI), completely.
Sun Yang has never heard of TI.

The Aussie commentators were equally (if not more) complimentary of Sun in the subsequent heat. And that's kind of the point: Cochrane has awesome technique. Ous Mellouli (the #2 seed) has awesome technique. Sun has awesome technique. But they each swim a bit differently, because they each have different bodies, different relative strengths and weaknesses.

I have no doubt Sun will win gold in the 1500 - he's a faster swimmer than the others. I'm more interested in whether he breaks the 14:30 barrier. Whatever happens, it proves nothing. Just another data point that people like you will over-interpret.

Why can't we just appreciate his greatness, without needing it to justify an entire belief system?

PS: Did you watch the women's 800? What did that "prove"?

Last edited by swim2Bfree : 08-04-2012 at 03:53 AM.
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  #8  
Old 08-04-2012
JC_Yang JC_Yang is offline
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I don't mean Sun Yang know TI, he probably doesn't know it at all.
In the aspect of pure science/logic, his performance prove nothing. A single sample CAN'T prove anything. I don't need someone to tell me what is science/logic. Don't be so serious about the 'disprove'.

Back to the topic, you and me are now talking about top class swimming athletes competition, they all have the best fitness among us, the variants are negligible, I suggest. If you don't mind this suggestion, do you think their different techniques might be key to the result is a plausible reasoning?
Of course, without scientific measurement, e.g some analyst from all data of them by scientist, OR try to train them three in the same ways, all in Cochrane style, or all in Ous Mellouli style, or all in Sun's style, no one can tell a more precise version of the story.

I think you're the man who over-interpret things. I don't read the Australian's comment fully, I just assume the piece you post is a fragment, otherwise I don't know how to interpret it as the message you bring up here.
Quote:
The Aussie commentators were equally (if not more) complimentary of Sun in the subsequent heat. And that's kind of the point: Cochrane has awesome technique. Ous Mellouli (the #2 seed) has awesome technique. Sun has awesome technique. But they each swim a bit differently, because they each have different bodies, different relative strengths and weaknesses.
I haven't watched the women 800, so no comments.

Last but not least, even the most logical centric science--Math, is not solely about demonstrative reasoning(though the final representation is), plausible reasoning play a big part in it, let alone the other subjects.
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  #9  
Old 08-04-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_Yang View Post
Back to the topic, you and me are now talking about top class swimming athletes competition, they all have the best fitness among us, the variants are negligible, I suggest. If you don't mind this suggestion, do you think their different techniques might be key to the result is a plausible reasoning?
Over 1500m, the technique, ie the vehicle choice makes a big difference.

But just like it happens to be the case for less technical disciplines, such as endurance running for instance, variants in fitness among top class swimming athletes are *not* negligible in my opinion.

I am not crazy about Cochrane's technique. He does create massive drag, does break the balance very severely hence the *need* for a 6-beat clocked kick. He obviously relies heavily on his extraordinary high stroke rate, which ain't a bad horse to bet on. I just wish the final product was more refined...

So regardless of what these experts may have commented, I definitely wish he (and his coach) had chosen a bit of a more streamlined vehicle. It's even allowed to believe that he could match, or outperformed Yang on the fitness side. I base my judgment on the fact that if he manages to battle for Bronze with this vehicle, what things could have been if using a better vehicle.

In other words I perceive Cochrane as a fitness freak that can perform miracle swims in spite of a perfectible technique.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 08-04-2012 at 05:04 PM.
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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He did ok finally. I still question the choice of a systematic bilateral breathing pattern early into the race, but hey. Silver isn't bad.
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