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  #31  
Old 05-06-2016
deggy1
 
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Originally Posted by terry View Post
Many of you are probably familiar with the TI Green Zone chart--a height-indexed chart of efficient stroke counts for 25y, 25m, and 50m courses. If you haven't downloaded it yet, it's available on the Free Stuff page at the TI Store.

While in St John USVI for the TI Open Water Experience, Coach Chris Douat (1st TI coach in France) and I were discussing those charts and both of us agreed that they could be more precisely individualized. We came up with a way of doing that, using Tempo Trainer. The exercise is to work through a range of tempos of about .2 seconds (.95 to 1.15, 1.0 to 1.2, 1.05 to 1.25, 1.1 to 1.3, etc.) and find out what happens to your stroke count.

I decided to perform this experiment as soon as possible. Following the OW camp I flew to South Florida to co-direct a 1.0 Coach Certification Course with Coach Suzanne Atkinson. While there I swam sets of 50m repeats in the Coral Springs Aquatic Complex 50m pool on two consecutive days.

Both days I started at Tempo 1.3 and swam 32 x 50, finishing at 1.0 Tempo (I repeated 1.0 twice). I counted strokes on all 50s. I considered the first 10 as a tuneup and treated the 50s between 1.2 and 1.0 as where I was likely to achieve my personal Green Zone.

On Monday my SPL was 38 at 1.2 and 42 at 1.0.
On Tuesday I did a little better, swimming 38 SPL at 1.2 and 41 SPL at 1.0.
According to the chart my Green Zone should be 36 to 44, but I think this narrower range is probably more accurate. I could probably continue to .95 Tempo and be between 42 and 43. So the right range for me to determine Green Zone is probably .95 to 1.15. I'll try that soon.

Today, back in New Paltz I did a similar set in a 25y pool. Rather than 50s, I swim a series of 27 x 100 repeats. I started at 1.3, treated the first 7 x 100 as Tuneup and began tracking my stroke count closely when I got to 1.2.

At 1.2 my SPL was 14 (56 strokes for 100y). I reached 60 strokes (15 SPL at 1.13) and didn't reach 64 strokes for 100y (16SPL) until 1.02. I was at 61 strokes for 1.01 and 1.0.

According to chart my Green Zone is 14 to 18 SPL, but I've gone with 13 to 17 in training.

I'll try this again soon, working my range from 1.15 to .95.

I'd love to see other curious swimmers try this and post your results on this thread.

Pls include your age, gender, and height to help us better categorize/analyze the data we collect.

I'm 64 y.o. (65 in two months), male and 6'0" tall.

I'm a relative novice when it comes to swimming so I wasn't familiar with the TI Green Zone chart but i'll definitely have to check it out and see where I am expected to be on the scale.

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  #32  
Old 05-19-2017
Streak Streak is offline
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I sort of tried this today.
My brain cant get around all the numbers and then remembering it all to report here ia a mission! So I simplified it slightly using my Garmin swim to help me keep track as much as possible while trying to remember my stroke counts to report here.

I did a number of 100's at 1.30 to warm up and to tune up. I then did successive 100's shortening the TT time by .02 per 100 all the way down to 1.08 which is a stretch for me. RPE was quite high and while I have done mid to high 1:30's on occasion I have never done so many in succession. I waited about 20-30 seconds between each 100.

The first 25 yards was always one stroke less than the others and according to my garmin was the fastest all of them sub 1:30 with the remaining 3 a fair bit slower resulting in the average time.

At higher tempo I should be going faster, maybe fatigue was setting in. My arms were getting tired. So here is TT - SPL and time per 100 yards in a 25 yard pool.

1.30 15 1:37
1.28 15 1:37
1.26 15 1:37
1.24 15 1:37
1.22 15 1:37
1.20 16 1:36
1.18 16 1:35
1.16 16 1:36
1.14 16 1:35
1.12 16 1:35
1.10 16 1:35
1.08 17 1:35

I look forward to all of the comments and suggestions.
If you follow my YouTube channel from the video in my signature you can look at my version of TI!!
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  #33  
Old 05-20-2017
tomoy tomoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streak View Post
At higher tempo I should be going faster, maybe fatigue was setting in. My arms were getting tired. So here is TT - SPL and time per 100 yards in a 25 yard pool.
Hi Streak! That 1:18 tempo is looking like a nice sweet spot.

Yeah, something is a little non-linear in that math. It sounds like slipping as you progress to faster tempos. Maybe a dropped elbow. Maybe loss of hull-length (impatient lead hand). Maybe swimming with your arms too much instead of hips, shoulders. Maybe wasted movement and time in recovery. Come back and see us this summer - make sure you tell Stuart, bribe him into filming!

Otherwise, work in the 1:20-1:10 tempo zone and see if you can get a more perfect streamline, a less wiggly core, a straighter head position, a less disruptive breath. Something to get your time down to 1:34, 1:33, 1:32, 1:31, 1:30 for those same 16 strokes. Avoid pushing harder with your hands. Look for the speed by being the perfect torpedo.

Cheers.
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  #34  
Old 05-20-2017
Streak Streak is offline
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Hi Tomoy,
Thanks as always for your insightful replies.
I think you pretty much confirmed what I thought the situation to be.

IN previous experiments I have noticed doing the same or better times at lower tempos while really concentrating on all of the elements. In many of the latter 25's of the sets above I started feeling a little winded.

I think that some peoples body make up and style don't make the higher tempos easy to achieve. I will however try and start at the 1:20 to 1:10 zone as you mention and see what results I can achieve while a little fresher. I think Stuart even once said that based on how he saw me swimming that I should not try and go much faster than a tempo of 1:25. Specially not until I can tune my stroke such that faster tempos give me quicker times.
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  #35  
Old 05-21-2017
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streak View Post

1.30 15 1:37
1.28 15 1:37
1.26 15 1:37
1.24 15 1:37
1.22 15 1:37
Hi Streak: same SPL, tempo increases but pace doesn't improve. If these numbers are correct, you must have lost time during the non stroking part (ie turns & pushoff) as tempo increased. Do you count the beeps during turns and pushoff? If not, I suggest you to do it, it's a good exercise. At these rates, 4 beeps for turns and pushoff should be enough.

Best regards,
Salvo
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  #36  
Old 05-21-2017
Streak Streak is offline
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Thanks Salvo, good point. I will look into that.
The time figures are pretty accurate. The SPL could be plus or minus 1.
As far as the TT is concerned, no doubt the device is accurate I am just not sure that my timing is exactly to the beep.
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