Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Favorite Practices and Sets
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-07-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,680
andyinnorway
Default

Sunday 6 December 2015

Lots of people in the lane - quite hard to do a single 25m without meeting feet.

I tried some TT/SPL combos that would have me heading for a sub 36s 50m but it was hard to focus. Nothing else to comment on this session.

Monday 7 December 2015

I had some work in West London today so got up at 4.30 to drive for a 7am start in a 50m pool.

I swam around 40x25. I wanted to get an understanding of my stroke pattern and efficiency in a long course setting.

I struggled with swimming straight in an unknown pool today, it had a much deeper bottom at one end so holding a grout line was tricky. It made me realise that I need to vary my swim locations more often.

As I picked up the effort intensity my SPL settled around 44 with a wall push off. My best time was just under 40s.

I observed that the longer distance without a turn was also giving me some focus wobbles too. especially as my stroke rate went above 75spm.

My learnings from today will be:-

1. I need more absolute speed so a 6bk needs to be learnt and practised.

2. I'm not aerobically fit enough to go all out for a long course 50. I'll address that with some short rest long stroke 100's, probably at 60spm so I can measure my time on stroke count easily.

3. I have a specific need to adapt to holding sync during a breathing stroke as I can be late on my spear after breath at high stroke rates.

4. I must keep doing my line ups so that I don't start to get straggly in the lane as the stroke rate and power goes up to sprint effort.

Lots to think about. Tomorrow I have Stuart in the lane with me so I'll use that opportunity to swim some 100's and do some kicking as he'll be game.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-08-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,680
andyinnorway
Default

Tuesday8th December 2015 - Lane conditions Great - With Stuart

I like to do my more challenging aerobic sets when I have a partner in the pool, it's just easier to keep pushing off at the right repeat time when someone else is sharing the effort.

Today was a sessions of two halves.

4x50 warm up and stretch (I was fatigued and aching generally after 3 hours of moving and repairing washing machines yesterday)

12x100m target pace 1:30 off 2:05 (to go around the clock in 12 intervals)

We put in plenty of effort here but neither of us were able to pace at 1:30 today. All 12 were under 1:38 and the best was probably 1:33

This was in part due to fatigue and in part due to not having a clear idea of TT/SPL combos to aim for before my session.

8x25m breastroke working on 10m starts. This was just lovely zen like swimming, rising at 10m and then 5 meditative strokes to finish each lap.

8x25 freestyle kick board. I've always been a bad kicker but I had at least improved from the last time 4 months ago I did any 25's. In the summer I was kicking 45s per 25m, today it was 37/38.

8x25 metric sprints. TT@64. 3 beep push off, 10 strokes, double breath 11 strokes. 16s. I managed to hold this for 6 lengths and dropped a stroke on 2.

It was almost as if the technical sets of BR and kick had reset my focus and relaxed my body as I couldn't have swum flat 16's after my performance in the aerobic set.

Next time I'll do a long tune up then finish with some sprints where I swim 25 as above turn and try to put in the next 10 head down strokes whilst holding TT sync.

I observed that by just looking a bit further forward on the sprint efforts I was able to keep a much straighter line down the pool.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-09-2015
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 479
s.sciame
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
8x25 freestyle kick board. I've always been a bad kicker but I had at least improved from the last time 4 months ago I did any 25's. In the summer I was kicking 45s per 25m, today it was 37/38.
Hi Andy,
you may also like reading this:

http://forums.usms.org/showthread.ph...ck-is-Horrible

There are some kicking sets proposed and some advises. It seems it is important to also train DPK (Distance per Kick) to get some feel for the water with feet. But in general it seems that kicking improves just by doing it, no matter if you do it mindlessly or mindfully.
I prefer using a front snorkel instead of the kick board and noticed that I'm faster if let the whole foot exit the water and then slap on the water (I know that this is not correct technique, although the coach in the link above recommends this). Is it the same with you?

Salvo
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-09-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,680
andyinnorway
Default

thanks for that. I'll read those tips in details, must be some gems there.

I agree with the sentiment that if you keep saying your a bad kicker you'll always be a bad kicker so I'll stop using it as a reference.

I'll also try to do at least 8x25 in each session.

My only observation so far is that I speed up when I turn to a rotated position so as I start to add 6bk to my freestyle I might not hold a strict 3 beat time, but instead use 1 kick for rotation and control as per 2bk then a quick double kick to add marginal propulsion to my sprint times.

I've got a feeling my 50 time will improve unilaterally with my 25m kick time.
If they are both around 36s at the moment I can imagine by the time I can kick a 32 I'll probably be able to swim one too :)

I had a day off the pool today to start framing my workshop that I'm building in the garden. The sun was shining which was a blessing but I'd have rather been in the water.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-10-2015
terry terry is offline
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,305
terry has disabled reputation
Default

IMHO Kicking is a waste of time. At least if you're practicing the kick in isolation, yet intending to use it in integration.
What I mean by this is that it's very helpful to practice the only kind of kicking that you do in isolation when racing. I.E. The underwater dolphin, if you rely on it when racing.
But if you are training your legs to contribute more in whole stroke, it's a waste of time to work them in isolation. With or without a kickboard or fins, or snorkel, or any tool.

I think I proved this thesis pretty conclusively when I coached the sprinters at West Point from 1996-99. We didn't do a single kick set of any kind for those three years (nor did we do a single pull set).
[We did however do very fast start and turn repeats, that included 5 to 10 meters of underwater kicking.]

We simply practiced whole-stroke swimming with long strokes at quite fast speeds. Every swimmer I coached swam markedly faster those three years than they ever did--before or after I coached them--while doing conventional kicking sets.
__________________
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-10-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,680
andyinnorway
Default

Terry,

I agree with you. But I also think it's something to choose not to do once you are competent at it.

I doubt many of your west point sprinters couldn't kick a fast 25 if asked to do so.

I'm still at the level where my kick is improving my overall technique balance and streamline. I wouldn't do it to shave the last tenth of a second off a sprint but right now it's filling in basic holes in my overall swimming ability together with flip turns and bilateral breathing.

Today was a wonderful session

Thursday 10 December 2015

I kept a single focal point today to swim as straight as I could every stroke every length.

4x50m warm up

8x100m full lope tt0.84 off 2 minutes. I swam these stroke perfect at 17SPL with feet to the wall. This gives a pace of 1:40 and was the most relaxed 2 minute 100 repeats I've ever done.

I then tried to hold my stroke length with a faster pace.

4x25,3x50,2x75,1x100 tt0.72. I was able to hold 17SPL for each interval with a pace of 1:26

4x25 breaststroke glide with pride. 10m underwater starts TT0.84 Pace 1:43

8x25m kick - I read Salvo's comments yesterday and some of his link about not being a 'non kicker' today I hit my kicks harder and swam an 8s pb of 29s.

I've realised that I'm starting to 'feel the water' at the back end of the body as well as the front. I'm hoping that as the feel gets better it will benefit my 2bk in normal freestyle.

A great session. and nobody in the pool.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-10-2015
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 479
s.sciame
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
today I hit my kicks harder and swam an 8s pb of 29s.
Great, already under 30s is very good! When I tried that hard I hit 31s (with a snorkel) and I was amazed because I had never gone under 40s before. Sometimes it's just a matter of trying, isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
I'm hoping that as the feel gets better it will benefit my 2bk in normal freestyle.
Same for me (I like open water and distance swimming, not interested in sprinting). I often read that "2bk provides little to no propulsion". Well, for me 2bk has always provided ZERO propulsion and I would be glad to be promoted to LITTLE propulsion (by little propulsion I mean being able to complete a length 2b-kicking with a kickboard or a snorkel). My suspect is that in order to learn such a 2bk, first you need to have mastered an effective 6bk and/or have developed some feel for the water over your feet, and it seems quite hard to me to achieve this stage having never practiced kicking sets.

Finally I also agree that kicking is something to choose not to do once you are competent at it.

Salvo
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-10-2015
terry terry is offline
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,305
terry has disabled reputation
Default

I did at least 800y per day of pretty intense kick sets for four years in college. My times on a kick board improved tremendously. It never had any impact on how I kicked in whole stroke.
My 2BK in races remained ineffectual and my legs still got rubbery at the end of races. Every time I tried to kick more for speed at the end of the race, everything fell apart.

You could do kicking sets--including kick on side--for the next 10 years and see no improvement in your 2BK. There is simply no relationship whatsoever between the neuromuscular pattern of kicking sets and the action of the 2BK in whole stroke.

My 2BK now is truly instrumental in my overall propulsion. That came from practicing 2BK skills in a variety of ways. I'm putting finishing touches on a new video and ebook combination that explains how to do that.
__________________
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-11-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,680
andyinnorway
Default

Looking forward to that video Terry. I'll keep doing some kicks (4-8 lengths) till they stop feeling awkward - then I'll probably take your advice.

Friday 11 December 2015 - lane conditions very scruffy

4x50 warm ups - looking at the line

I swam the whole set on lope timing today (3 beeps per stroke cycle)

4321 leading to 4x100m tt0.75 - pace 1:30 @18SPL. I was happy with this I held stayed in sync with the tempo trainer, most of my first lengths were 16 not 18SPL but I took lazy turns to stay with the beat and time schedule.

The 100's were hard to do with lane traffic. but I managed.

4321 tt0.65 looking for a sub 1:20 100m pb. The lane was a bit busy to really go for this and I was one beep behind on the second turn so stopped after 3x50.

8x15m dolphin kicks - this felt more relaxed and co-ordinated so I moved to the main pool and started to integrate them into my push off.

I swam the rest of the length with a new focal point 'face printing'. Just as the police would roll your finger to get a finger print I imagined the same movement for the face, concentrating on the opposite cheek bone, almost as if you have something on your face you are trying to wipe off with the water. this keeps the head nice and flat in the water for a low breath.

8x25 breaststroke - tt0.75 10 beep breakout at 10m. My breaststroke is really improving despite being only a secondary part of my freestyle training. I was aiming for 22.5s each length (30 beeps) and hit 6 on the nose, and one ahead and one behind by a beep.

A good effort today given the lane conditions.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-11-2015
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 479
s.sciame
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post

My 2BK now is truly instrumental in my overall propulsion. That came from practicing 2BK skills in a variety of ways. I'm putting finishing touches on a new video and ebook combination that explains how to do that.
Thanks Terry, that would be great to watch.

Salvo
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.