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  #51  
Old 04-24-2015
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Originally Posted by sclim View Post
WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Today in the first 8 lengths I got 7 on 20 SPL exactly!

In fact in total today I got about 18 or 19 lengths on 20 SPL. In fact it was easier to keep track of the lengths that I failed to get it down to 20 SPL!
Excellent! I've been gone a few weeks and it's nice to come back and see your progress here. Anything new to report since then?

Are you going to start trying to hold the 20 SPL for longer repeats? Something like the 4 x 25, 3 x 50, 2 x 75, 1 x 100 pyramid might be a good next goal once you're getting solid in the green zone for SPL.
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  #52  
Old 04-25-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Pamperin View Post
Excellent! I've been gone a few weeks and it's nice to come back and see your progress here. Anything new to report since then?

Are you going to start trying to hold the 20 SPL for longer repeats? Something like the 4 x 25, 3 x 50, 2 x 75, 1 x 100 pyramid might be a good next goal once you're getting solid in the green zone for SPL.
No, I think not quite yet. I tried a ladder of sets (done one length at a time with brief recovery) 20/21/22/21/ SPL and repeating over and over, and it was educational -- the 20 SPL is still hard to get, but when I shoot for the other end of the spectrum, 22 SPL, with relaxation I still often actually get 21 SPL and a fraction, so it tells me that when I really try hard (over-pulling?) I'm not achieving much more than when I don't.

I'm only achieving 20 SPL at best, which is only the mid-point of my green zone. I haven't been able to progress further from that. So I wouldn't call it "solid in the green zone" quite yet. Something is still missing from my technique or balance or both.

Maybe when I can get 19 SPL consistently, then allowing some margin for slippage back to 20 SPL as I progress to repeats and multiple repeats might make SPL maintenance be more easily sustainable.

I have been following your progress with interest, and experimenting with emulating and practicing your "wide entry" and "recovery" focal points with no further improvement, at least not in SPL. As you have noted before, SPL is not an end to itself, but a measuring tool; but that measuring tool for me points to a persisting (but narrowing) deficiency that still needs to be worked on.
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  #53  
Old 04-26-2015
terry terry is offline
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I'm only achieving 20 SPL at best, which is only the mid-point of my green zone. I haven't been able to progress further from that.
Sclim
Though the title of this thread infers not using TT, hvve you tried using a Tempo Trainer to lower SPL into the more efficient area of your Green Zone? I.E. Just slow tempo incrementally until SPL reaches 19 and 18. Then continue practicing with that tempo until you swim 19 and 18 with ease--almost unconsciously.
At that point you can begin increasing Tempo incrementally at 19 and 18 and see how high a tempo you can reach while holding it.
This might take weeks.
At the beginning check what tempo results in 20SPL. When you complete the process I describe I bet you'll be able to swim 20SPL at much faster tempo than previously,
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  #54  
Old 04-26-2015
terry terry is offline
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PS: I also agree with Tom that working (concentration, not physical effort) to hold 20-21 SPL as you increase distance can be another way to make 19 or lower achievable on a shorter repeat.
Try 4x25 + 3 x 50+ 2 x 75 + 1 x 100 first.
If you succeed, try
3 x 50 + 2 x 100 + 1 x 150 - and so on
Or simply add one length at a time
25-50-75-100-125 Try to hold SPL consistent as you go up.
Then
125-100-75-50-25, trying to 'save' the occasional stroke on the way down.

Patiently repeat these many times. It works!

PS: Focus on streamlining focal points.
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  #55  
Old 04-27-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Sclim
Though the title of this thread infers not using TT, hvve you tried using a Tempo Trainer to lower SPL into the more efficient area of your Green Zone? I.E. Just slow tempo incrementally until SPL reaches 19 and 18. Then continue practicing with that tempo until you swim 19 and 18 with ease--almost unconsciously.
At that point you can begin increasing Tempo incrementally at 19 and 18 and see how high a tempo you can reach while holding it.
This might take weeks.
At the beginning check what tempo results in 20SPL. When you complete the process I describe I bet you'll be able to swim 20SPL at much faster tempo than previously,
Actually, somewhere in the course of this thread I did make an apologetic note that somehow when this focus evolved for me, I decided that I would fix the tempo at an arbitrary slow rate to make it easy for me to be clear what other variables affected the SPL outcome. So almost all the time I have been using a TT set at 1.40 seconds (despite the title of the thread). On a few occasions, twice when forgetting goggles or trying a new pair I have gone "commando" and tried to approximate the same tempo 1.40 sec (without actually having a TT that day) in approaching the same drill.

It seems to me 1.40 is pretty slow already. But I will take your suggestion seriously and try to stretch the tempo out more. My worry is that as a sinker, my hard won flotation and balance, such as it is, will suffer if I slow the tempo down further. But no gain without trying...

I have another drill idea I want to try -- I wonder if in my hard pulling I'm dropping or collapsing my elbow again, accounting for my inability to break through 20 SPL. So I want to try the skate plus swing-push drill, using a snorkel to make the drill more continuous, and maybe flippers if I can't get the body moving horizontally in skate using bare feet. I noticed during my forays into intentional 20/21/22/21 SPL that when I relaxed more to get 22 SPL, the SPL didn't rise as much above 21 as Had expected, suggesting that a certain proportion of my hard pull was counter-productive.

Last edited by sclim : 04-27-2015 at 01:38 AM.
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  #56  
Old 04-27-2015
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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It seems to me 1.40 is pretty slow already. But I will take your suggestion seriously and try to stretch the tempo out more. My worry is that as a sinker, my hard won flotation and balance, such as it is, will suffer if I slow the tempo down further. But no gain without trying...
Slow tempos do challenge balance--but perhaps that can be a positive: if a balance problem is revealed at a slow tempo that is hidden at a faster one, well, you can fix it once you are aware of it. For what it's worth, I think my lowest SPL values come with significantly slower tempos than 1.4 (though I haven't used a TT lately, I'd bet they're closer to 1.6 or 1.7).

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...suggesting that a certain proportion of my hard pull was counter-productive.
This has certainly always been the case with me. I almost always get my lowest SPL numbers when I feel as if my lead hand is PULLING the rest of my body behind it. I really give very little attention to the pulling arm--I am mainly aware of the stationary lead hand dragging the rest of the body behind it (as if someone were tugging gently on my wrist and towing me forward). I don't think that feeling is real--the physics doesn't hold up--but the feeling is very productive for me. Maybe you can play around with that as a focal point?

Edit to add: I have been paying even less attention to my pull lately, with so much attention given to relaxing my recovery. Maybe some work in that direction would be productive for SPL work as well--taking even more attention off the pulling arm and putting it one the spearing action and elbow lead/arms "falling forward" instead.

Fun, isn't it? I get to swim TWO sessions tomorrow!
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Last edited by Tom Pamperin : 04-27-2015 at 03:44 AM.
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  #57  
Old 04-27-2015
terry terry is offline
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I wonder if in my hard pulling I'm dropping or collapsing my elbow again, accounting for my inability to break through 20 SPL..
NEVER resort to hard pulling to reduce SPL. ALWAYS focus on reducing resistance, improving streamline, disturbing the water less, working WITH the water more in your stroke. Stroke more gently--so as not to move the water molecules behind your hand--not harder,

This is covered in exhaustive detail in Chapter 9 of my new ebook on Ultra-Efficient Freestyle, with many illustrations. That's Module 1 of our new downloadable Self-Coaching System.
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  #58  
Old 04-27-2015
terry terry is offline
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For what it's worth, I think my lowest SPL values come with significantly slower tempos than 1.4 (though I haven't used a TT lately, I'd bet they're closer to 1.6 or 1.7).
Same here. I haven't done it much lately either, but I get well below my Green Zone--and experience no sense of 'gliding' (much less OVER-gliding) while doing so. Rather it feels impeccably timed.
I did experience instability when I first ventured into this range, but with more practice I controlled it--and felt even more stable at faster tempos.

Quote:
I almost always get my lowest SPL numbers when I feel as if my lead hand is PULLING the rest of my body behind it.
I get my lowest SPL numbers--including at mid-range to faster tempos--when I apply very gentle pressure and try to focus more on Holding My Place, and fight the instinct to push back.
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  #59  
Old 04-28-2015
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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I get my lowest SPL numbers--including at mid-range to faster tempos--when I apply very gentle pressure and try to focus more on Holding My Place, and fight the instinct to push back.
Interesting--my usual practice lately has been to have very little awareness directed toward my pulling (anchoring?) arm at all (except for delaying any motion with lead arm until it's in good position with vertical-ish forearm--but that's BEFORE the anchoring phase). I will have to play around with developing some awareness of the intensity of pressure I am applying.

Thanks!
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  #60  
Old 04-28-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Same here. I haven't done it much lately either, but I get well below my Green Zone--and experience no sense of 'gliding' (much less OVER-gliding) while doing so. Rather it feels impeccably timed.
I did experience instability when I first ventured into this range, but with more practice I controlled it--and felt even more stable at faster tempos.



I get my lowest SPL numbers--including at mid-range to faster tempos--when I apply very gentle pressure and try to focus more on Holding My Place, and fight the instinct to push back.
Hmmm, I'll have to work on this. I get that when I pull really hard it's counterproductive. But when I drop the pressure from medium to gentle, or even medium hard to medium light, that's when my SPL increases.

I did get the rare sense when everything was timed right and the directions were aimed just right, the sense of movement on that stroke was optimised; but I have to say that as far as I remember, the feeling of pressure on those occasions was no less than usual.

I'll really work in this and play around with other variables, but not push or pull hard. I'm also trying to develop the idea of not building up the pressure abruptly.

Yesterday I dropped the TT from 1.40 to 1.50 sec and experienced a mild ease of getting to SPL of 20 (the mid-point of my Green Zone) compared to before. However today at TT of 1.50 sec, it seemed like I struggled to get to an SPL of 20. However, it's just one day, so I'm not too worried. I'm still recovering after a hard 1/2 marathon Sunday, too, so that may be a factor. My legs and core are still somewhat sore and stiff, and I'm somewhat tired.

Last edited by sclim : 04-28-2015 at 08:50 PM.
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