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  #21  
Old 03-07-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Cathy,

WOW!!!
achieving this kind of stroke in only four months is really impressiv! To collect all the goodies in your stroke would burst a forum's post. You have all rights to be proud of it!

At least to me this stroke doesn't seem to cause breathing problems. Ok, it does... Even your sometimes recognizable bopping is by far not so deep as if you'll need a dolphin-like jump out of the water to get a breath. So let me suggest some FPs of awareness for your next pooltimes:

- Are your spear-targets deep enough, that your fingertips are just below bodyline, then wrist, then elbow then shoulder... every time?

- Do you hit these targets just with your spearing-movement without corrections while arm is straight?

- Where in front(?) of your head is your best felt entry-point to spear without resistance to the targets?

- Is your speared arm patient enough to stay unmoved until the other hand drops into its mailslot?

- Is it possible to move the ragdoll-arm far away from bodyside and palm back all the way and dropping hand with palm back (not thumb first)?

- Can you realize, that your elbow is leading your recovery further up to front, if you're looking straight down?

- Does your chin really follow your shoulder to look sideway as far as possible without stress in your neck? (Farest is possilbe if you don't stress your neck neither chin to belly nore chin up. And sometimes it might be, the weightless neutral head feels so good, that it becomes hard to disturb it with rotation work, resulting in a much too late and not far enough sideway rotation...)

- Do you feel your core working in cooperation with all your (rotation-)movements?

- Do you really take only a single FP at time (do so with the above)?

Your way to breathing is as short as the distance of your mouth to surface. You'll get it very soon. Look forward to it, but not with your eyes when swimming FS :-)

Be proud and enjoy the way!

Best regards,
Werner

Last edited by WFEGb : 03-08-2018 at 12:02 AM. Reason: Correction
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Here is a video deminstrating what i mean by connecting your cheek to your shoulder when spearing and breathing

https://youtu.be/j_7wx06VsSM
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  #23  
Old 03-08-2018
whoiscathy
 
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Huge thank you, Werner! Your comment has given me wings.

Quote:
Do you really take only a single FP at time (do so with the above)?
Several points on your list have been in my mind while swimming, and you also highlighted my mistake that may have, in fact, prevented me from fixing, for example, the left spear: that I've been trying to focus on multiple FPs simultaneously. Never works!

My Coach has been saying the same, but apparently it's taken me months to really hear it out: I only started to really focus on one single FP maybe 8-10 days ago and that alone has been a learning curve :)

I'm having a very hard time with just one because I can sense real time as the rest of the stroke is falling apart and then I must fix "everything".
With the spear, it had been left mailslot entry & spear. So I start a length with clean slot entries and spearing straight to the target. For 2 strokes... Eventually, my 2bk (which I can do rather cleanly, with no little stabilizing kicks in-between but only if I focus on it) takes over, often after just 5-6 strokes and I seem to forget about the left entry, even though I started the whole length trying to fix the spear - only to notice at the end that I got hijacked again.

Oh and even you said the same thing to me already before. (My proprioception has certainly improved compared to that thread!)

I'll try my best again and again. Thanks again.
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  #24  
Old 03-08-2018
whoiscathy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushroomfloat View Post
Here is a video deminstrating what i mean by connecting your cheek to your shoulder when spearing and breathing

https://youtu.be/j_7wx06VsSM
I've seen that video long ago. I can see how it can be helpful in some cases but I think it may also introduce another problem I don't have at the moment. So I "fix" one, and develop another.

As I see it, it encourages shrugging (which is quite bad for the shoulder joint) and/or narrow tracks (which I've been working hard on to fix). If you look at my build you can see that for my shoulder/upper arm to touch my face I either have to push my head to the side or shrug my shoulder.

In other words, it goes against the advice that there should be "a small apple" stuck between your shoulder and head. Not to mention that in TI you spear deeper so if you were to follow that advice, it might even make you tuck your head and dive.
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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WFEGb
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Hello Cathy,

Quote:
...My Coach has been saying the same, but apparently it's taken me months to really hear it out: ...
It will not be the last time that hearing/reading exactly the same words will give them a whole somewhat new and deeper sense. Uncounted times I thought: Oh, last time I heared it some time ago, but now I did reallyunderstand... same words... and same thoughts six months later. Now I try to think: Oh a new understanding of the old things, curious what will happen with that in six months...

What popped up in my mind while looking at your stroke and reading about your difficulties to get air. Normally we don't teach our interrupted breathing anymore. But in your case it might be a good experience to get some confidence to get enough air that way...

When you'll decide to go to air, rotate more (leading arm unmoved (just turn your palm to pool's ceiling) other arm in the deep jeans-pocket) until you're just on your back, but on a balanced point where you don't get flat on back, more a balanced skate on back (has been called the sweet spot). In this (relaxed) position you'll have "all time of the world" to get enough air in 1-3 breathers. Then turn back (palm turning down/backward, body rotating back around the spine-arm-line, hand/arm moves with a smooth recovery to mailslot) and take your next 3-5 strokes then same on the other side. When you got familiar with that shorten the interruptions down to a short inhale... to keep the interruptions shorter. It's simply the other way round to seamless breathing...

Enjoy with best regards,
Werner
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  #26  
Old 03-08-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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The deep spear is a learning tool as you get better you can spear higher
Spearing higher will support your breath whilst you take it, your deep angled spear will actually pull you down due to water drag on the frontside of the arm further making more difficult to reach air.

There is shrugging and there is scapular elevation 2 different things, how are you intending to streamline off the pool walls then?

Super wide tracks stifle rotation further hampering breathing for a beginner who cannot take a breath.

Good luck
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  #27  
Old 03-08-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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I should add RE spearing

"deep & narrow" or "high & wide"
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  #28  
Old 03-08-2018
whoiscathy
 
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Not much development on the breathing front per se, but I think my left spear should have improved. I didn't get to record myself because the pool was so full, but I'll get to see it soon anyway because I'll be recorded again tomorrow morning :)

To be fair, I must add that a huge part of my stroke has happened because of my Coach, Johnny Widén!

To your earlier comment, Werner:

Quote:
At least to me this stroke doesn't seem to cause breathing problems. Ok, it does... Even your sometimes recognizable bopping is by far not so deep as if you'll need a dolphin-like jump out of the water to get a breath.
(...)
Your way to breathing is as short as the distance of your mouth to surface. You'll get it very soon.
When I was doing whale eye today I tried to really let that sink in. I enjoyed the stereoscopic view and saw just how close the surface really is. Hopefully tomorrow, or very soon.
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  #29  
Old 03-08-2018
whoiscathy
 
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In case this thread starts a bit abruptly: it has been removed from the Freestyle love/hate relationship thread and relocated here.
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  #30  
Old 03-08-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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WFEGb
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Hello Cathy,

Quote:
To be fair, I must add that a huge part of my stroke has happened because of my Coach, Johnny Widén!
Stay fair with yourself, Johnny undoubtedly did a great job, but you have to swim!

And with Johnny as your Coach you are, as we in Germany say, best saved as good as in Abraham's lap.

Now it becomes clearer to me, what your very first 3-10 FPs have to be. They are even more difficult and complicated than breathing in FS, or a well tuned 2BK... (know it from my own experience)

- be patient with yourself
- be patient with yourself
- be patient with yourself
.
.

Best regards,
Werner

PS: Terry said to imprint a new skill you have to do it mindfully 7000 times...
Mat is a little more generous, he says, mindfully 4000 times...
I'm nearly sure: You'll get it with mindfully 3000 times!
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