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  #31  
Old 04-11-2015
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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sclim

this idea that you are doing, swimming only 1 length at a time. Did you get the idea from Mat Hudson's blogs? (Aim for stroke length ease, and the metrics 101 series)

How long have you been doing this and when do you plan on introducing the increase of distance? I'm assuming that once you reach your desired spl you will try to increase distance?

I have been doing much the same, off and on, but more off than on! I have dedicated the month of April to doing much of what you are doing and hoping some good will come of it. I swim in a pool that is 70 feet long and typical spl is 18. My height is 5 ft 3 inches, so spl isn't too bad. I have managed lower spl, but perceived rate of effort is very high, so that can't be good.

Anyway, I look forward to your future posts and also your ideas. Keep em comin!

Sherry
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  #32  
Old 04-13-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
sclim

this idea that you are doing, swimming only 1 length at a time. Did you get the idea from Mat Hudson's blogs? (Aim for stroke length ease, and the metrics 101 series)

How long have you been doing this and when do you plan on introducing the increase of distance? I'm assuming that once you reach your desired spl you will try to increase distance?

I have been doing much the same, off and on, but more off than on! I have dedicated the month of April to doing much of what you are doing and hoping some good will come of it. I swim in a pool that is 70 feet long and typical spl is 18. My height is 5 ft 3 inches, so spl isn't too bad. I have managed lower spl, but perceived rate of effort is very high, so that can't be good.

Anyway, I look forward to your future posts and also your ideas. Keep em comin!

Sherry
The one length at a time I think was influenced by Mat Hudson's blog; but the kicker was when I had abandoned this ideal earlier, and had gone on to increasing my tempo, doing longer sets, assuming, hoping that "somehow" my SPL would improve as I got more efficient with general experience. It didn't happen, so I revamped my approach, slowing down my TT to 1.40 seconds and gave myself a single goal -- to get my SPL down. I started in early March. I have now just finally barely reached 20 SPL in a 25 m pool which is the midpoint of my Green Zone for my wingspan. It initially was killing me; now I am reaching this spl more consistently with more of a relaxed stroke, I think, by better balance and coordination. My shoulder blade ache which came back again after I hit 20 SPL (likely due to renewed exertional effort or stretching) has now receded (again).
I pause after each length and try to figure out what went right and what went wrong.

Interestingly, once I hit 20 SPL a single time, then moved on to hitting that number semi-frequently, there was a brief period where I was reluctant to swim each lap, because of the pressure on myself to repeat the feat, which had been much less apprehension-inducing when I had the mental attitude that "I'll just do the best technique that I am capable of, and the result , whatever the result is, will just happen". I struggled for a while then managed to re-acquire that same fatalistic open minded mental attitude, and became more relaxed about making the effort again.

I hope that the SPL number will drift down further towards 19, maybe even hitting 19 exactly. At some time I will be increasing the sets to 50m, and see what kind of increase that causes my SPL to do. Then slowly increase duration to about 100m I think, then decrease TT interval, maybe using laddered sets.

BTW what is your green zone for your pool length? I thought your 18 SPL was totally out of my reach, given our similar heights, (162 cm is about 5' 3") but I just realised your pool length is 70 feet, which is quite a bit shorter than 25 m; so we're not comparing apples to apples.

Last edited by sclim : 04-13-2015 at 02:36 AM.
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  #33  
Old 04-13-2015
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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sclim

Tks for your post. Like you, I was influenced by Mat's blog--Perfect 25, Aim for stroke length ease, etc. I started out with good intentions and got ambushed by so many interesting "how to " skills on this forum. At my age I should have known better!

After reading some of your posts, I made the decision to devote this month to sticking to a routine of seeking the optimal stroke.

You asked about my green zone for my pool length. I had asked Mat that and he replied that it s/b 15.5 to 19.5. He based this on a 25 yard pool and adjusted that by 1.5 spl (pool length is 70 ft or 23.3 yards). Yes that is a significant difference from a 25 m pool. Based on my age (71) and the fact I am female, shorter arms, and the age/power variable, he said I should aim for the higher range of spl (17 to 19). He also reminded me of the need to focus on seeking the optimal spl and not the lowest. This is a huge swing in what TI taught five years ago, at least for me.


Mat also suggested that I should try (at least on a monthly basis) to increase distance.
Here is his suggestion on increasing distance"

You can increase the challenge on your SPL control by adding distance in two way – 1) you can do more repeats, or 2) you can make the individual repeats a longer distance. You definitely need to keep challenging your ability to hold SPL consistent for longer distances.

I think that you are on the right track and it seems that the process is really working for you. Thank you for inspiring me to set a goal and the need to stick to it.

Sherry
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  #34  
Old 04-14-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
sclim

Tks for your post. Like you, I was influenced by Mat's blog--Perfect 25, Aim for stroke length ease, etc. I started out with good intentions and got ambushed by so many interesting "how to " skills on this forum. At my age I should have known better!

After reading some of your posts, I made the decision to devote this month to sticking to a routine of seeking the optimal stroke.

You asked about my green zone for my pool length. I had asked Mat that and he replied that it s/b 15.5 to 19.5. He based this on a 25 yard pool and adjusted that by 1.5 spl (pool length is 70 ft or 23.3 yards). Yes that is a significant difference from a 25 m pool. Based on my age (71) and the fact I am female, shorter arms, and the age/power variable, he said I should aim for the higher range of spl (17 to 19). He also reminded me of the need to focus on seeking the optimal spl and not the lowest. This is a huge swing in what TI taught five years ago, at least for me.


Mat also suggested that I should try (at least on a monthly basis) to increase distance.
Here is his suggestion on increasing distance"

You can increase the challenge on your SPL control by adding distance in two way – 1) you can do more repeats, or 2) you can make the individual repeats a longer distance. You definitely need to keep challenging your ability to hold SPL consistent for longer distances.

I think that you are on the right track and it seems that the process is really working for you. Thank you for inspiring me to set a goal and the need to stick to it.

Sherry
I'm 67, and was a splasher until I started TI 2-1/2 years ago, after deciding to learn swimming and biking so I could compete in Triathlon. I was also terrified of cold water which created huge problems in my first open water tri in a glacial fed lake in Banff. Fortunately I didn't drown. But things are improving surely but surely since then.

This morning I tried new goggles, forgot my TT, and was distracted by too many people in the lane. And the hot tub in which I sit for a while before swimming to build up my courage and to contemplate my sets was out of service today. In 800 m of swimming, 25 m at a time, I hit 20 SPL only twice. My newly developed skill is so fragile, it doesn't take much to throw it off. But it is what it is, as is my body type, unlike my age, which is merely a number.

In my quest to learn to swim, I am trying to understand how to learn. My Aikido Sensei just sent us students a list of "koans", which are Zen sayings which are, on the surface, paradoxes, but which are supposed to lead us to the truth. They are very similar to the wise sayings of Daoism. (In fact, the Dao of Daoism is literally the "Way" that is referenced in the koan below). This one seemed to be directed at me:

The Student asked "Master, how will I know when I have grasped the essence of the Way?" The Master answered "When you stop asking."

I think this means, specifically to me, stop thinking so hard, and just do it.

Last edited by sclim : 04-14-2015 at 05:40 AM.
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  #35  
Old 04-14-2015
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Hi sclim

Well here you have it.

This morning I tried new goggles, forgot my TT, and was distracted by too many people in the lane. And the hot tub in which I sit for a while before swimming to build up my courage and to contemplate my sets was out of service today. In 800 m of swimming, 25 m at a time, I hit 20 SPL only twice. My newly developed skill is so fragile, it doesn't take much to throw it off. But it is what it is, as is my body type, unlike my age, which is merely a number.


I think what happened to you was a lot to throw you off of seeking your 20spl. Seems like everything you usually do prior to swimming was off. Sometimes that happens and I guess we just have to deal with it.

As for your quote:

The Student asked "Master, how will I know when I have grasped the essence of the Way?" The Master answered "When you stop asking."


In another thread the poster MJM told me, "if you have to think, you stink".

I think I like your quote a little better

Sherry
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  #36  
Old 04-14-2015
igorner igorner is offline
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I have just started to "roll to air" on every third stroke....prior to this, every time I would roll to the left...air was taken on board. All of a sudden I can now "sense" the feeling of swimming downhill and there is a definite sense of increase to speed. I had not ever considered exhaling in a controlled way though....I would usually exhale quickly, under water.

After reading these posts in seems I may have been causing a leg sink (increasing drag) by doing so. Very anxious to get in the pool now and try out this new (for me) practice.

Even with all the imperfections of my technique, though, I find that I am swimming better than I ever have. Even to the point of people coming up to me at the pool and saying "you obviously know what you are doing" A 1000 meter swim is just not daunting to me.....on to 1500m.
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  #37  
Old 04-15-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Originally Posted by igorner View Post
Even with all the imperfections of my technique, though, I find that I am swimming better than I ever have. Even to the point of people coming up to me at the pool and saying "you obviously know what you are doing" A 1000 meter swim is just not daunting to me.....on to 1500m.
Yeah, whenever I get discouraged at apparent lack of further progress, it's helpful to think back at how helpless I was at the very beginning of this process, and it renews my spirits!
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  #38  
Old 04-15-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Today another slightly puzzling difficult swim. This time I had my TT as per normal, but still only hit 20 SPL a few times, despite really, really trying hard. Maybe that's it. Trying too hard. (Yoda: Mmmm, try not -- do we must.)

But I have been running hard 3 days in a row now, and my legs are beat, and I'm generally quite fatigued too.

No matter. I got it before, and the bliss will return.

Oh, during the swim I also I tried to tidy up my right breathing, which tends to drift rather high and up to about 30-45 degrees from the horizon, unlike my very cool left side which tends to be perfectly placed, but which I still get anxious doing. I did a nicely placed right sided breath exactly at the waterline with my mouth efficiently tucked in the crook of my neck. But I timed it wrong and got a mouthful of water with a vigorous inhalation. I was fortunate not to inhale it right down my lungs, but reflexively gulped the whole mouthful down into my stomach. This really threw me, and I almost had to stop but I struggled on, trying not to throw up. I put on a lot of SPL that length, and it probably affected my concentration for a while after that!

But I still remember how perfectly where that breath was placed. Just the timing was clumsy.

Last edited by sclim : 04-15-2015 at 03:29 AM.
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  #39  
Old 04-15-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Hey, all; I just reviewed the whole "how long to master bilateral breathing" thread in this O2 in H2O: Breathing Skills section, and Coach Stuart McDougall listed a nice refresher list on the way things can go wrong in breathing and how to fix it. I know I tend to over think, but breathing is one area where all I can see is how high the mouth is above water, and I can't understand why and how hard it is to correct. So some analysis is helpful sometimes.
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  #40  
Old 04-15-2015
fooboo fooboo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
breathing is one area where all I can see is how high the mouth is above water, and I can't understand why and how hard it is to correct.
Since head position might be straight down, in neutral, it is the least
appropriate to breathe. It's much easier to follow doggy path, than
streamline.
I assume arthritis plays a role in the way one breathes. My shoulder
pain changes a lot. I could understand how people ache moving head
where it cannot be moved.
Best regards.
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