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  #11  
Old 11-09-2008
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Ah yes, you're quite right, but I was swimming double-arm with inverted breaststroke kick. Normally I switch to back crawl at the flags but I was so intent on going a bit faster that I forgot the flag and - bam! Arms at sides unfortunately (:-). I suppose one has a fifty-fifty chance with this style.
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2008
terry terry is offline
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Default Think about Streamlining

Quote:
Originally Posted by madvet View Post
One of my Master's group people holds state records in backstroke. He says to kick UP (the same emphasis as in freestyle where you kick down) and to point the toes slightly towards the midline.

If you kick DOWN you will strain your hamstrings.
While we're talking about kicking in backstroke, I'd just like to leave this thought for consideration. Before focusing too much on the propulsive characteristics of the backstroke (or any) kick, focus on how you can make the kick more streamlined.

This is consistent with the TI core principles of reducing drag before increasing propulsion and of saving energy over increasing your capacity for hard work, force production or power.

Don't be surprised if I post reminders in this vein on the majority of my Forum posts, until it's permanently embedded in the "group think" here.

How to think about streamlining in BK kick?
1) Do your feet and lower legs stay within the space your torso passed through?
2) Do your feet remain consistently streamlined within the line of your lower leg -- or at least the upper leg if your flexibility doesn't permit that?
3) Are the toes of both feet nearly touching most of the time - aiming for a "pigeon-toe" can help.

A steady, unbroken (i.e. 6-beat) kick is much more the norm in BK kicking than in freestyle. When you streamline well, you may be more conscious of feeling your feet slip through the water with relatively little effort -- and consequently little fatigue.

Many of the suggestions posted here for improving the kick are sound. The drill sequence on the Backstroke for Every Body DVD can be easily adapted for the focal points I listed.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2008
Mike from NS Mike from NS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
3) Are the toes of both feet nearly touching most of the time - aiming for a "pigeon-toe" can help.
This is a point I've missed. Should the feet be almost in "pigeon toe" formation for a basic flutter kick and two beat kick as well? If this is so - no wonder my kick is so poor. My focus has been in pointing the toes and eliminating as much drag as possible. ( I tend to toe out slightly.) EDIT : Oppps - there I go off topic - sorry. I guess this should have been in "freestyle".

Mike

Last edited by Mike from NS : 11-10-2008 at 12:59 AM. Reason: off topic perhaps
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2008
dwdvagamundo dwdvagamundo is offline
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Richard--Thanks for the tip on registering again. I was becoming very frustrated
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2008
terry terry is offline
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Mike
I definitely feel - and focus on - the pigeon-toed sensation prominently in BK and little, if at all, in FR.
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2008
Mike from NS Mike from NS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
Mike
I definitely feel - and focus on - the pigeon-toed sensation prominently in BK and little, if at all, in FR.
Thanks Terry.

Long ago you suggested that I shouldn't be too concerned over a non-propulsive kick - in time it would likely develop, and it wasn't a critical factor in the great scheme of things. My efforts to better balance, streamline and relax have helped a kick develop to some point. It was thrilling when the kick first worked and the pool bottom moved for an extended period! Now I'm anxious to try the suggestions you and the others have made here in backstroke. To kick UP or DOWN was always one of my questions too. (The 2BK is coming along but I have to learn how much/or little to kick as over/or under rotation is common for me.)

Mike
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2008
daveblt daveblt is offline
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Focusing on pigeon toed in back also seems to help if you have a tendency to bend your knees too much.


Dave
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2008
daveblt daveblt is offline
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I know I promised you the video .I was going to post it last week but there is just a couple things I'm trying to work out in my strokes .Even after practicing TI for the past 12-13 years sometimes in back and free I feel as if my legs have a mind of their own if I'm not thinking about it and am still trying to work out the 2 beat kick . In butterfly when I watch the video sometimes my arms don't clear the surface enough .I'm a little picky ,however I'll try to post the video as soon as I can.


Dave

Last edited by daveblt : 11-19-2008 at 01:56 AM.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2008
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
I know I promised you the video .I was going to post it last week but there is just a couple things I'm trying to work out in my strokes .Even after practicing TI for the past 12-13 years sometimes in back and free I feel as if my legs have a mind of their own if I'm not thinking about it and am still trying to work out the 2 beat kick . In butterfly when I watch the video sometimes my arms don't clear the surface enough .I'm a little picky ,however I'll try to post the video as soon as I can.
Well, as long as you can improve by analyzing your own videos, posting isn't as important. It would be fun to see though.

I was thinking about the elevation of the body during or before recovery. There seems to be a link with the position of the feet. At some point, it seems the feet and the top of the head are at the surface of the water. Then the feet slip under and the body rises up. Delaying the whip of the legs seems to make things easier.

I can't wait to get over this cold and work on there things more.
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  #20  
Old 04-30-2009
elskbrev elskbrev is offline
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Default strong kick for backstroke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhoda View Post
Kicking in back stroke seems to use the hamstrings more, I've noticed. I got a bad case of tendonitis behind my knee last summer from going into backstroke from not enough warmup.
Kick like Terry does in Backstroke for Every Body--down kicking leg is virtually straight, relaxed and powering from the hip, while the up kick bends slightly then flicks straight in the knee and ankle at the top, toes pointed and turned slightly in. Get a tempo going and you'll feel like you are running on the water.

Bending the knee on the down kick and pulling adds nothing in the way of power or propulsion, in fact adds drag, and puts undue stress on the calves and back of knee.

I've found info in this thread very helpful. Fine points like slight inversion of toes, easily missed; glad to know difference in application between BK and FR.

Can't wait to get back in the water next week.

Thanks all.
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