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  #1  
Old 05-30-2012
bazfletch3 bazfletch3 is offline
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bazfletch3
Default 2 beat kick with spear switch - looking for help please!!!!!

Hi all

I've been a forum lurker for some time now, after jumping on the TI wagon mid last year.

As a brief intro, I’m a 33 year old aussie guy who has been a lifelong amateur athlete (primarily aussie rules football) with a general interest in health and fitness – who couldn’t swim….

Injuries have finally curtailed my football career and I’ve used it as a spur to finally learn to swim properly, with a long term goal of getting into triathlon’s (LONG term…!!!)

So I grabbed hold of a TI book and DVD, swallowed my pride and started slowly working through the drills and exercises at the pool, starting from the beginning. I havnt “swum” (my previous inefficient version of it) since I’ve started the TI drills, in an effort to try and un-learn my previous bad habits. It’s a very slow process, but for the first time in my life I feel like I have some sort of “control” over what I am doing, that it has a purpose, and that I AM getting there.

But, I’m looking for some help. I’m currently trying to work up from what I think is a pretty solid skating effort, into a co-ordinated spearswitch, with a 2beat kick. Things just didn’t seem to be working for me, and what I think I have worked out is that up until now I have been using a flutter kick in my drills, but my flutter kick has ended up merging to be right leg dominant, kind of to a 1-2 tempo (I hope this makes sense). When I now try using a 2 beat kick in spear switch, my transition from right arm skating, across to left, feels pretty good (with a right leg kick). But switching the other way, I am completely unco-ordinated, and more often than not I end up kicking again with my right leg, and balance goes out the window.

Last night I tried my own little drill in an effort to help, doing left arm skating, consciously kicking with my left foot only, and working into a pattern/tempo of
• left kick - left arm skate - glide
• left kick - left arm skate - sneak right hand to goggles - glide
• left kick - switch to right arm skate - glide
Then I’d stop and reset, and repeat. I did feel like I was making some progress, although it still feels very foreign compared to doing the opposite sequence, where everything feels nice and co-ordinated and streamlined.

Does it sound like I am on the right track with my thinking and approach here? I’d love to hear anyone else’s advice or experience on this.

Cheers & Thanks

Barry
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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why not this... Left side skate (left arm extended), left kick into right side skate... over and over?
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  #3  
Old 05-31-2012
tomoy tomoy is offline
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It helped me to think of it as 1-beat, not 2-beat. As Suzanne points out, focus on one kick to get you to the other side, and that's all you need to concentrate on to get the timing. After you get comfortable at an intermediate level, I think you'll notice that you're doing a little pre-kick before your kick just to align all the parts, and that then adds up to 2-beats.

If I were to start all over with TI, I think I would get rid of the kick altogether. Wipe out the bad flutter habits. Maybe even use a pull bouey (is that a dirty word? I can't even spell it). Focus on balancing the hull (Skate). After 2+ years of TI, I'm still surprised to see video of me, and I'm still splaying my legs out, even after the last 3 video reviews told me to stop that!

When I focus on minimizing my kick, I find I'm gliding further, more smoothly and not over-rotating. All good.

Just so you know you're not alone: http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...ng+2-beat+kick
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  #4  
Old 05-31-2012
Patricia Patricia is offline
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Default 2 beat switch with spear switch

Hi Barry,

Not sure if you aware but there are several TI coaches in Australia.
Check find an International Coach on this website and you will get access to coaches in Sydney and Melbourne.
Often a quick check with a coach is all that is needed to get you over a plateau in your TI progress.
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2012
aquarius aquarius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomoy View Post
It helped me to think of it as 1-beat, not 2-beat. As Suzanne points out, focus on one kick to get you to the other side, and that's all you need to concentrate on to get the timing. After you get comfortable at an intermediate level, I think you'll notice that you're doing a little pre-kick before your kick just to align all the parts, and that then adds up to 2-beats.
Not sure I follow you here. Isn't a 2-beat kick ONE kick for each (opposite) arm spearing? You seem to imply there are 2 kicks (one kick and one pre-kick) for each arm, so 4 kicks for each complete cycle.
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  #6  
Old 05-31-2012
CoachNoel CoachNoel is offline
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Default 2-beat kick & domint leg.

Barry
When I now try using a 2 beat kick in spear switch, my transition from right arm skating, across to left, feels pretty good (with a right leg kick). But switching the other way, I am completely unco-ordinated, and more often than not I end up kicking again with my right leg, and balance goes out the window.

The above description is usually the result of the dominant leg always kicking first. (It is usually the right leg that is dominant and that fits your situation.) When you kick with the wrong leg first - you then need the second kick to rotate. So you are not uncoordinated, you just need to sort the kick out.

I am not clear on what you have described for your drill. Just be clear on knowing that as you spear, it is always the opposite leg kicking forward.
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  #7  
Old 05-31-2012
tomoy tomoy is offline
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tomoy
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Good point. I've wondered that myself. You hear people talking about a 6-beat kick, but never a 4-beat kick. Watching Terry's video though, his instructions show 2-beats per side... I think that's what I recall - haven't reviewed it in a year.

Interested if there's an official definition for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius View Post
Not sure I follow you here. Isn't a 2-beat kick ONE kick for each (opposite) arm spearing? You seem to imply there are 2 kicks (one kick and one pre-kick) for each arm, so 4 kicks for each complete cycle.
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  #8  
Old 05-31-2012
bazfletch3 bazfletch3 is offline
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bazfletch3
Default

Thanks all!

My poor descriptions aside, i think I've been reassured that I am at least on the right track!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
why not this... Left side skate (left arm extended), left kick into right side skate... over and over?
This is basicaly what I started practicing; I just added in some extra kicks to try and settle myself - but I'll try and pare it back to just one, which should help imprint it more firmly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomoy View Post
It helped me to think of it as 1-beat, not 2-beat. As Suzanne points out, focus on one kick to get you to the other side, and that's all you need to concentrate on to get the timing. After you get comfortable at an intermediate level, I think you'll notice that you're doing a little pre-kick before your kick just to align all the parts, and that then adds up to 2-beats.
This is exactly what i find, and what I think I am seeing when watching videos of Terry; its almost like there is a tiny "reflex" kick on the other side before the main kick. As I said, I feel comfortable switching from right arm skate to left, using a right leg kick; but my left leg first does a little flick before my right leg kicks properly and in sync. What I notice when watching videos of Shinji, is that his legs in this situation are almost prefectly still, and only 1 leg fires, there is no "reflex" pre-kick on the other side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachNoel View Post
Barry
When I now try using a 2 beat kick in spear switch, my transition from right arm skating, across to left, feels pretty good (with a right leg kick). But switching the other way, I am completely unco-ordinated, and more often than not I end up kicking again with my right leg, and balance goes out the window.

The above description is usually the result of the dominant leg always kicking first. (It is usually the right leg that is dominant and that fits your situation.) When you kick with the wrong leg first - you then need the second kick to rotate. So you are not uncoordinated, you just need to sort the kick out.

I am not clear on what you have described for your drill. Just be clear on knowing that as you spear, it is always the opposite leg kicking forward.
i get what you're saying Noel; my only problem is that at the moment when switching from left arm to right arm, my dominant side takes over, which means my left leg does a tiny "pre-kick", my right leg fires as normal, then i try and kick again with my left leg to correct it, and everything goes pear shaped!


I'll keep working and as with most previous things, Im sure i'll get there EVENTUALY; Im not naturaly a patient person, but Ive sure learnt patience so far in my swimming endevours!

Cheers

Barry

Last edited by bazfletch3 : 05-31-2012 at 11:06 PM.
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2012
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Location: Rio, Wisconsin
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westyswoods
Default Working it out

Not to rehash what has been previously written, I would like to suggest using a swimmers snorkel for these drills. You are given the freedom to slow it down and really focus on the movement and synchronization. Being an individual who has a difficult time walking and chewing gum I have become a hugh advocate of the snorkel for refining stroke techniques.


Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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