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  #21  
Old 04-09-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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The separation of the movement of the shoulders & the hips is one that is incredibly subtle and not something to undertake if you don't already have a strong understanding of how the body is connected through the core in the water.

I see the main difference between the log roll and what shinji is describing as not the spearatoin between hips & shoulders necessarily but in letting the action of the hip joint, rather than the low back, allow the legs to remain in a horizontal plane even while the hips are rotating.

Visualize doing "the twist" ...the dance song... both feet stay firmly planted with the toes on the ground, while the hills are lifted, the torso & hips twist, but the feet stay even with one another...this is the starting position from which the snap can take place.

Moving the bottom hip back, rather than the top hip down is always an action that has worked better for me, but Once you get comfortable withe action on one side of the body, you should shift your focus to what the opposite side of the body is doing.

So if you've always focused on hip drive, try opposite side hip pull and vice versa.

if the 2BK has you flustered...you cant coordination leg snap with opposite side spear...try leg snap with same side stroke. Eventually you'll want ot shift focus back to opposite side spear as the spearing action takes less energy an shifts your focus back to lengthening (as opposed to stroking, which is a shortening action).

Shinji's workshop is a great exercise in expanding your understanding of how your body moves in the water...but requires some fundamental mastery first I believe.
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  #22  
Old 04-09-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyfish View Post
There were several revelations that really struck me.We have all watched Shinji's video and he looks relaxed, yet he travels tremendously far with each stroke. If all you know is basic TI, you focus on trying to streamline more. In this class we learned about how to apply active, rather small and explosive motion to our swimming. These small movements produce big propulsion when timed properly.

I found that simply mimicking Shinji's skating position requires the entire body to be fully engaged. I felt like a ballerina pointed from fingers to toes (for me, a VERY foreign feeling). This is a departure from the easy balance and relaxed, patient moves highlighted in the basic TI videos.

Shinji seeks to create contrast. He is either doing a quick and snappy motion, or he is still and streamlined. So it feels like "explode-recover-explode-recover".

So here's some info. about the 2 beat kick:
Keep the hips rather flat, not rotated. Keep the feet together and heels shallow at all times. Next, release (he calls it "loosening") one knee. The knee drops slightly but the heel stays high. At the moment of hand entry, you straighten the knee really fast. The top of your foot pushes down (snaps)forcefully then releases and returns to the home position.

Timing: Picture the bend in your elbow as it just touches the water, and the bend in your opposite knee. These 2 bends both straighten at the same moment (with force) and you spear the water, driving forward.

When your right hand enters, your left leg snaps and vice-versa.

This action pushes the left hip up out of the water (if your left leg snaps). So the focus is this snapping action rather than driving the opposite hip down.

We also learned to pull (yes, we actually used the "P" word!). We experimented using a Superman Glide and letting both arms drop at the same time (like a butterfly stroke) to determine where our arms must be in the stroking process (nearly vertical) in order to push water back without causing the body to lift vertically.

There is one more snap which comes in the last 6 or so inches of the pull before the hand exits. The resistance of the water against your palm makes the wrist bend and creates a rebound like feeling that propels your elbow forward on recovery faster.

I would not be surprised if we see an advanced TI DVD sometime soon (although this was not discussed, one can hope!). Shinji has created several drills and he is an excellent teacher. He is very analytical and is able to explain the concepts clearly. I highly recommend the class to TI swimmers that are very solid with basic TI and have reached a plateau in their performance.
You've share these ideas very eloquently, it's clear that you learned a lot! I really like the descriptors you've given and will actually use some of these.

Getting swimmers out of the "everything relaxed all the time" mode and into the "active muscle tone at the right times" can be challenging. Having a model like shinji not just to watch, but there teaching you must have been a great learning experience.


Although I must say I don't like the word "pull" still as it's really more of a push (you even said this...) there was no pull in what you described..>I try to banish that word from swimmers vocabularies.
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  #23  
Old 04-09-2012
Ladyfish Ladyfish is offline
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Default Push not Pull

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
You've share these ideas very eloquently, it's clear that you learned a lot! I really like the descriptors you've given and will actually use some of these.

Getting swimmers out of the "everything relaxed all the time" mode and into the "active muscle tone at the right times" can be challenging. Having a model like shinji not just to watch, but there teaching you must have been a great learning experience.


Although I must say I don't like the word "pull" still as it's really more of a push (you even said this...) there was no pull in what you described..>I try to banish that word from swimmers vocabularies.
Thanks Suzanne.....I agree completely with the "pull" statement and saying that it is really a "push" is perfect because it clarifies both the action and even more important, the timing. You only "Pull" when your hands are in front of you. Once the hands are at or below your shoulder line it becomes a "push" which was exactly what we all learned to distinguish in drill.
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  #24  
Old 04-10-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by Ladyfish View Post
Thanks Suzanne.....I agree completely with the "pull" statement and saying that it is really a "push" is perfect because it clarifies both the action and even more important, the timing. You only "Pull" when your hands are in front of you. Once the hands are at or below your shoulder line it becomes a "push" which was exactly what we all learned to distinguish in drill.
I do a variation of this from swing rehearsal. If you are in skating, and you swing (without switching) with your elbow at the surface of the water...then return that arm to the side/recovery position. During the swing forward, the elbow is high, the fingers point down. Simply maintain that position as you gently PUSH the water back while returnign the arm to the recovery position.

Really works nicely to feel what a good stroke can feel like and where to "finish' the stroke while effectively pushing water behind you.

THere is so much taht the water can teach us!
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  #25  
Old 04-10-2012
Ladyfish Ladyfish is offline
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Default Swing Push

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Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
I do a variation of this from swing rehearsal. If you are in skating, and you swing (without switching) with your elbow at the surface of the water...then return that arm to the side/recovery position. During the swing forward, the elbow is high, the fingers point down. Simply maintain that position as you gently PUSH the water back while returnign the arm to the recovery position.

Really works nicely to feel what a good stroke can feel like and where to "finish' the stroke while effectively pushing water behind you.

THere is so much taht the water can teach us!
Excellent! I also like that it teaches keeping the elbow high during the push. So many of us want to pull with a straight or nearly straight arm-it feels so powerful but the drag of that arm sticking down trumps the power benefit and heaves the back and shoulders up out of the water so energy is directed more upward than forward. TI should make this into an official drill to teach that focal point...they could call it the "Swing Push"....would you get royalties? J
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  #26  
Old 04-10-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by Ladyfish View Post
Excellent! I also like that it teaches keeping the elbow high during the push. So many of us want to pull with a straight or nearly straight arm-it feels so powerful but the drag of that arm sticking down trumps the power benefit and heaves the back and shoulders up out of the water so energy is directed more upward than forward. TI should make this into an official drill to teach that focal point...they could call it the "Swing Push"....would you get royalties? J
Probably no royalties...but I like the name "swing push". I also incorporate teh swing push with a breath on the same side initiated just as the push is finished.

Have fun with swing-push-breathe too! (we can probably throw a knee snap in there somewhere too...)
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Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #27  
Old 04-10-2012
swimmermike swimmermike is offline
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Coach Suzanne

Can you go through this slowly please--

What do you do with each arm as "If you are in skating, and you swing (without switching) with your elbow at the surface of the water...then return that arm to the side/recovery position."

If you need to "return that arm to the side/recovery position," doesn't that mean you have switched?

"During the swing forward, the elbow is high, the fingers point down. Simply maintain that position as you gently PUSH the water back while returnin the arm to the recovery position."

Do you mean maintain that high elbow. fingers down in the spearing arm and keep that position to push the water back. That sounds like trying to keep the arm in more or less the same configuration throughout the stroke. Pretty cool, never heard that said before.


Thanks very much.
Can you describe how, from a swing position, you would "return" an arm to the side/recovery position without it having speared? I know how to swing without switching, but if an arm needs to be returned, has it not speared? It seems that part of the time you must be referring to one arm, and then to the other.

This is very interesting stuff, so please describe what each arm is doing and your focal points--that would help.
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  #28  
Old 04-10-2012
Ken B Ken B is offline
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Hi Ladyfish, I stood up from the computer and practised Shinji's dry land kick then took it to the estuary. Had another 'best swim ever'. I forgot about trying to drive the leading hip down and just enjoyed the toe flick driving my buttock to the sky. Even my right leg which likes to be in on all the action when I lose concentration, behaved itself and waited its turn.

Thanks
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  #29  
Old 04-10-2012
Ladyfish Ladyfish is offline
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Default Delinquent legs.....

Ken B,

That is great news! I know about those lazy legs. For me it is the left that thinks it can just hide next to the right and do nothing, unnoticed. Even with all of the instructions clear in my mind, it still takes be half an hour to execute correctly and get my SPL in order.
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  #30  
Old 04-10-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmermike View Post
Coach Suzanne

Can you go through this slowly please--

What do you do with each arm as "If you are in skating, and you swing (without switching) with your elbow at the surface of the water...then return that arm to the side/recovery position."

If you need to "return that arm to the side/recovery position," doesn't that mean you have switched?

"During the swing forward, the elbow is high, the fingers point down. Simply maintain that position as you gently PUSH the water back while returnin the arm to the recovery position."

Do you mean maintain that high elbow. fingers down in the spearing arm and keep that position to push the water back. That sounds like trying to keep the arm in more or less the same configuration throughout the stroke. Pretty cool, never heard that said before.


Thanks very much.
Can you describe how, from a swing position, you would "return" an arm to the side/recovery position without it having speared? I know how to swing without switching, but if an arm needs to be returned, has it not speared? It seems that part of the time you must be referring to one arm, and then to the other.

This is very interesting stuff, so please describe what each arm is doing and your focal points--that would help.
This is just the swing rehearsal as seen on the Perpetual Motion DVD.
The original intent of the swing drill is to practice the recovery. But I use it to practice the 2nd half of the stroke. The leading arm remains in skate the entire time. The other arm starts at the side (I refer to this as the recovery position, the standard starting position for skating). So the side arm swings foward, elbow leading with the forearm dangling in the water. The crook of the elbow slides along the surface of the water (as opposed to having the mid-forearm, wrists or knuckles on the surface).

In the rehearsal, you simply put the arm back where it started wtihout a lot of thought as to how it gets put back...since the intent of the drill is on how the recovery begins. Most people will allow the arm to stay very relaxed and when you put it back to your side, the forarm will lag behind, elbow arriving first at yoru side then the arm is straigtened...this is the path of least resistance.

NO switch has taken place..you are still in skating position.

In the "swing-push", you simply maintain the tone required to keep the forearm in that hanging orientation, palm facing back adn elbow still along the surface. As you return the swinging arm to the side, you can really feel how the forearm engages a lot of water.

You can combine this "push-return" focus with an exaggerated spearing of the opposite arm which has been in spear position all the time... to emphasize that the push is also accompanied by spearing.

hope that helps visualzie things more. I do have some videos...I'll see if I can get students permission to post. them.
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Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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