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Old 04-13-2016
novaswimmer novaswimmer is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 228

Either sound OK. I don't feel a different connotation between 'mastery' or 'expert'. Either sound 'ultimate' and 'top of your game' to me. Mastery sounds simiilar to Master Swimmers.

Others: 'proficiency skills', 'consummate skills'. Or 'exemplary'.

Last edited by novaswimmer : 04-14-2016 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 04-14-2016
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Terry,

*Mastery* seems our favorite here. "Mastery of Master-skills" will be mine... But not sure, if translation isn't too direct and will fit Amercian's feeling. :-/

Best regards,
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Old 04-14-2016
descending descending is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 226

This is a great topic! I love the term mastery not only b/c my coach uses it on a weekly basis, but because of the many reasons already outlined. My coach is always pushing us to strive for something we simply can't quite reach at that time, always reaching to get better. He's very sneaky and works in phrases like 'when you master this skill it will allow you to unlock the next aspect of the fly catch I want to talk about.....' There is always a next thing building on top of the other and it never ends. Even old things can be made new and re-polished.

Expertise is akin to the rare talents of say Phil Keaggy on the guitar. He has had no equal for 40 years and is the standard all are judged by. It's not even close. To that end Michael Phelps openly states he continually learns new things about the water every year so it stands the rest of us are in it for life.
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Old 04-14-2016
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 647

Originally Posted by ti97 View Post
an expert is someone that knows the errors and how to avoid them, but mastery gives a connotation of continual learning....I think mastery is more appropriate
Actually, to me, "expert" carries more of a connotation of continual learning than "master" does. A chess master is a chess player who has attained a specified chess rating. A Jedi master is a Jedi who has attained a certain skill level. Chess masters and Jedi masters may be continuing to improve their skills, but that's not what makes them masters. An "expert", on the other hand, is a person who keeps abreast of everything that is being learned in their area of expertise.

Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Mastery sounds better. Includes body and mind.
Expert sounds more rational,theoretical, technical, learnt from a book.
This is a valid point. I think of an "expert" as somebody with head knowledge, but I think of a "master" as somebody who has achieved a level of performance (which may require, among other things, the acquisition of head knowledge). I could imagine someone being an "expert" on dentistry, but who had never acquired the skill needed to replace a filling or do a root canal.

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Old 04-14-2016
sclim sclim is offline
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Posts: 1,499

I think that due to a quirk in the English language, Expertise has a word for the practitioner (Expert) and the quality (Expertise) but not a handy verb for the action of acquiring such. Whereas "Mastery" has all three -- Mastery, Master and to Master, or, alternatively, the process of Mastering.

This, to me gives the choice of either the unrealistic aim to be the "Expert" or the more reasonable alternative to sign on for a lifetime apprenticeship of "Mastering" swimming, a process that is never fully finished, and implies a frame of mind of being aware of the process rather than the end point. This is much more in keeping with the Kaizen idea that has been taught in TI.

You may aspire be a "Master", but part of what that implies is that you never stop learning.

I also agree with ZT that "Expert" connotes a kind of dry intellectual knowledge known in the head, requiring thinking to put into practice, but without the feel or instinct.

Last edited by sclim : 04-14-2016 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 04-15-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,453

I still feel
Opposite about all
These comments .

The skills I want are expert skills. I acquire them through the process of mastery. The product is teaching g the skills of expert swimming. The process of me seeking the product is part of mastery.

Is the product teaching swim skills (specific to swimming) or is the product teaching how to learn (any skill).

If the former, use the title expert skills. If the latter use the title skills mastery

I think the product is the former
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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Old 04-15-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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This discussion is only imaginable on a TI forum.

Not judging, only observing. Very zen ;-)

Last edited by Zenturtle : 04-15-2016 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 04-16-2016
CoachStuartMcDougal's Avatar
CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Here's an excellent piece Terry just posted:

The "Critical Kaizen Loop" is a loop of Mastery, or "Mastery Loop", a continuous improvement cycle from "conscious incompetence" to "unconscious competence". The loop can be applied after the skill has been learned and is now part of a natural rhythm or pattern - or "unconscious competence".

I think either Expertise or Mastery will work. Title words and perceptions are important, but ultimately it's the content that will drive the appeal, desire and need.

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Old 05-19-2016
lloyddinma lloyddinma is offline
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Originally Posted by terry View Post
I'm putting final touches on the next TI self-coaching aid, a followup to last year's release of the Ultra Efficient Freestyle Complete Self-Coaching Toolkit.Since I began working on it, I've used the working title "Expert" Skills, but as I get closer to release I wonder whether TI *Mastery* Skills might be the better term-of-art. The technique skills include Catch-and-Press, impeccably-tuned 2BK, and Seamless Breathing. I'm inviting input before making this critical decision. What's your most instinctive response to the term Expert vs Mastery? Does one strike you as more inviting, more accessible, more inspiring? And why?
Hi Terry...

I am a little late to the party.

I tend to prefer the working title "Expert Skills". It is more appealing to swimmers of my cadre, who just want to progress to a level of proficiency and leave it at that, leaving the philosophy of kaizen to other spheres.

Furthermore, you already state the skills to be transferred -- Catch-and Press and impeccably- tuned 2BK etc. It is not yet my understanding that kaizen plays a role here, skills seem binary: I take it the reader should have seamless breathing after applying the techniques or not. So "Expert" might seem more applicable.

Whereas in the context of say competitive swimming, there will always be room to improve on a variable such as speed, stamina etc. You want to master how to keep improving.

But then again these thing are subjective. :)

Stillness is the greatest revelation.
-- Lao Tzu
The light of the body is the eye.
-- J. Ch__st.
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Old 05-19-2016
Posts: n/a
Default +1 for Mastery

Terry & All,

This is my first ever post to this forum, as previous 3 month I was kind of sponge that absorb abundant knowledge shared in this forum - thanks to all contributors

English is not my mother tongue language ( as I am an Indonesian) and personally i prefer 'Mastery' over 'Expert with some reason:
1. you have to be expert before you reach a level of mastery
2. mastery implied that you combine the expertise that you have with other aspects to be implemented/transfered
3. you can train to be an expert but i think to be a master require more than just a brain (i.e. softer skills
4. somehow i feel like comparing the word Guru vs. Teacher

just my two cent
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