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  #1  
Old 08-06-2009
Willem Willem is offline
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Willem
Default Speed vs. economic swimming

Hi is this assumption correct according to you?

TI is primarly focusing on economic swimming and because you save energy, you can swim a bit faster and moreover you can hold your speed longer on longer distances! But speed is in TI rather a consequence of saving energy and swimming economic.
Traditional swimstyles are perhaps more focused on raising speed? And are also more efficient for increasing swimspeed? Disadvantage is that they focus less on economic swim?
According to this assumption you should conclude that the traditional swimstyles would be more valuable in swimcompetitions in short distances. And TI would then be better for swimcompetitions on longer distances and triathlons on longer distances (because you can come out the water still relative fresh).

Is this a correct thought?!? Or do you find it crap?!

PS: I practise triathlons and the swim is certainly my worst part of the race. I am motivated to improve my swimming and TI seems for me an ideal learning school because I do not have really a lot of talent. I'll follow a workshop in the UK in November and expect much of it!
PS: Excuse me for my sloppy english :-)

Best regards
Willem
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2009
FrankJ FrankJ is offline
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Default Speed vs. economic swimming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willem View Post
Hi is this assumption correct according to you?

TI is primarly focusing on economic swimming and because you save energy, you can swim a bit faster and moreover you can hold your speed longer on longer distances! But speed is in TI rather a consequence of saving energy and swimming economic.
Traditional swimstyles are perhaps more focused on raising speed? And are also more efficient for increasing swimspeed? Disadvantage is that they focus less on economic swim?
According to this assumption you should conclude that the traditional swimstyles would be more valuable in swimcompetitions in short distances. And TI would then be better for swimcompetitions on longer distances and triathlons on longer distances (because you can come out the water still relative fresh).

Is this a correct thought?!? Or do you find it crap?!

PS: I practise triathlons and the swim is certainly my worst part of the race. I am motivated to improve my swimming and TI seems for me an ideal learning school because I do not have really a lot of talent. I'll follow a workshop in the UK in November and expect much of it!
PS: Excuse me for my sloppy english :-)

Best regards
Willem
Hi Willelm,

I've been practicing TI for only a year, so I'm sure other members on this forum would be able to answer this better than me. But here are my 2 cents.

My understanding of the TI principles, is that economy is desirable component and outcome of good form. Specifically, one of the ideas that initially attracted me to TI as opposed to traditional swimming was the emphasis being put on streamlining and reducing drag, which in the water is preponderant.

By reducing drag, the effort being equal, you will go faster irrespective of the speed you aim for. Imagine putting a parachute behind a Ferrari. If you remove that parachute, you will go faster, whether your engine is revving at 2000rpm or 10000rpm. I see this as a basic physical principle that can be generalised beyond swimming, as the same applies to cars, boats, etc. This is how, to me, economic swimming contributes to speed. Instead of spending energy by creating wasteful turbulence, you invest it in forward motion, and in this sense the ideas of TI hold true whether you are aiming to go fast on a short distance, or save energy to swim 10 miles...

I was swimming with a 'traditional' style. In UCSD, I had some private lessons. They said my style was good (I'm not disputing their coaching abilites, I'm referring to a specific case here that involved a 'traditional' instructor). Well, it was not. I was neither fast, nor I could swim for very long as I got tired quickly. Things changed radically when I started with TI. I’m still an ungifted athlete, but much better than before nevertheless.

Last edited by FrankJ : 08-06-2009 at 02:03 PM.
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2009
Adam Adam is offline
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There's really no difference between TI style and traditional styles. TI just allows you to learn to do what the best swimmers do naturally.

I think the parachute image is really good. I see lots of swimmers in my pool who are really strong physically and go into great effort to swim fast. Yet, they don't swim particularly fast. When I see this I always think to myself that if they only took the time to make some small adjustments to their stroke they would be much faster with the same effort.

Those swimmers, by the way, are also trying to swim like the best swimmers in the world. They just never had proper guiding.
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  #4  
Old 08-07-2009
FrankJ FrankJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
There's really no difference between TI style and traditional styles. TI just allows you to learn to do what the best swimmers do naturally.
you're right, sorry, i meant to refer to traditional teaching...
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2009
madvet madvet is offline
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Have a look at Terry's video (in the blog section, "NEW VIDEO - Perpetual Motion Freestyle" ) for a discussion of "propulsion vs. sustainability."
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  #6  
Old 08-08-2009
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willem View Post
Hi is this assumption correct according to you?

TI is primarly focusing on economic swimming and because you save energy, you can swim a bit faster and moreover you can hold your speed longer on longer distances! But speed is in TI rather a consequence of saving energy and swimming economic.
Traditional swimstyles are perhaps more focused on raising speed? And are also more efficient for increasing swimspeed? Disadvantage is that they focus less on economic swim?
According to this assumption you should conclude that the traditional swimstyles would be more valuable in swimcompetitions in short distances. And TI would then be better for swimcompetitions on longer distances and triathlons on longer distances (because you can come out the water still relative fresh).

Is this a correct thought?!? Or do you find it crap?!
Somewhere in between.

There are some things you can do in the water that consume lots of energy and make you slower. And there are some things you can do in the water that save lots of energy and make you faster. Regardless of whether your goal is to race short distances or long distances, you want to avoid the first of these and seek the second.

But there are also a few things you can do in the water that consume lots of energy but make you a little faster. You want to do those things when you're racing short distances, but avoid them when you're racing long distances (except near the end of the race). Keep in mind that what a "short" or "long" distance is can vary depending on your level of fitness. Olympic swimmers may be fit enough to maintain sprint techniques over what most of us would consider fairly long distances. As a triathlete, you may not want to use sprint swimming techniques at all, since you won't even be in the water when you're near the end of your race.

Total Immersion puts most of its emphasis on avoiding the things that consume lots of energy and make you slower, and on seeking the things that save lots of energy and make you faster. To the extent that we talk about short distance versus long distance techniques, we tend (at least at workshops) to spend more time talking about long distance techniques because that's what most of our workshop attendees are planning to do. But there is really nothing "un-TI" about short distance swimming techniques. I'm a competitive swimmer, and do short distance distance events more frequently than I do long distance events. I train for 50s differently than I train for 200s, but the training I do for both is definitely "TI training".


Bob
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  #7  
Old 08-08-2009
Grant Grant is offline
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Coach Bob, I would be interested in seeing how you train for a 50 or 100m distance race. As I still do the sprint races and my times are beginning to fall off, perhaps I can tweak something with your insights.
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Last edited by Grant : 08-09-2009 at 02:13 PM.
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  #8  
Old 08-12-2009
ayesr ayesr is offline
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ayesr
Default Speed in TI is a consequence...

...of the TI technique. And TI swimming focuses on being like a fish...a dolphin would be more like it...a hip drive here, a spear hand there, a lunge or maybe a gentle fall of your head here, a foot-flick now and again...

All these with the thought of "...doing without doing..." (but CEO TL's words - "action without action" or in Julie Friedeberger's words: Practise non-action...in a forum).

And with barely six months in TI, am just glimpsing this truth...about speed being the result of technique......

End.
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  #9  
Old 08-12-2009
Willem Willem is offline
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[quote=fjconti72;4859]Hi Willelm,

By reducing drag, the effort being equal, you will go faster irrespective of the speed you aim for. Imagine putting a parachute behind a Ferrari. If you remove that parachute, you will go faster, whether your engine is revving at 2000rpm or 10000rpm. QUOTE]

That's a nice metaphore!
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  #10  
Old 08-12-2009
Willem Willem is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Willem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachBobM View Post
Somewhere in between.

I train for 50s differently than I train for 200s, but the training I do for both is definitely "TI training".
Bob
I guess this was what I wanted to hear!!!

Thanks for your comments!
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