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  #51  
Old 07-26-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by terry View Post
For a variety of reasons too complex to go into now, I haven't posted anything on this thread in over three months. However I plan to practice-with-purpose for the rest of the summer and to post my practices regularly. I felt absolutely brilliant at times during this evening's practice in Lake Minnewaska.

Thurs 22 July 2000m at Lake Minnewaska
I did a single set, as I nearly always do at the lake. I've been swimming at Minnewaska fairly regularly since June 18, ranging between 1200 and 2000m. I'd planned to swim 2400m (6 x 400) this evening but decided to stop after 5 x 400.

Main Set 5 x 400m on 9:00
Increase tempo by .02 sec on each 400 (1.18-1.16-1.14-1.12-1.10) and take times. Goal is to keep effort quite low and descend the set by maintaining stroke quality.
My times were 6:22-6:10-5:56-5:53-5:52. I decided to stop the set after 5 repeats because of diminishing returns.
I can calculate total strokes for each 400 by dividing time/tempo
I took 323 strokes on the first 400, 318 on #2, 312 on #3, 315 on #4, and 320 on #5.

Based on my results, what would you advise I do in my next practice to target and improve my current weakness?
I'm curious what your RPE was, but there is a nadir in your SPL at repeat #3 at a tempo of 1.14. You get faster after that and SPL goes up, but what was your effort level?

I'd like to see you able to hone in on the 6:00 pace (1.14 or 1.15 tempo) as it looks like that's a nice area where form/endurance still holds together, and then explore the faster tempos in shorter repeats.

Maybe something along the lines of
3 Rounds of 4 x 200m as 1.18, 1.16, 1.14, 1.12

You'd be fresher when you hit the 1.12 tempo. or do 2 rounds of 5 x 200m and take it down to 1.10 again.
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  #52  
Old 07-27-2016
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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Originally Posted by terry View Post

I've been swimming at Minnewaska fairly regularly since June 18

Main Set 5 x 400m on 9:00
Increase tempo by .02 sec on each 400 (1.18-1.16-1.14-1.12-1.10) and take times. Goal is to keep effort quite low and descend the set by maintaining stroke quality.
My times were 6:22-6:10-5:56-5:53-5:52. I decided to stop the set after 5 repeats because of diminishing returns.
Hi Terry, I assume your practices at Minnewaska are cable swims, right?

Moreover, is the lake generally in perfect flat conditions so that you can reliably compare your times within a session and over different sessions?
In the lake where I use to (cable) swim it's always hard for me to collect reliable data: I find that even light currents affect my times quite a lot and currents vary not only from session to session, but sometimes also during the same session (ie within 1 hour or so).
While I find it funny to try adapting stroke rate to water conditions (for me it's better to swim at slower rates when current assisted and higher rates when I'm against current), every time I go for an open water swim I never know what times to expect.

Salvo
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  #53  
Old 07-29-2016
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Salvo,

There is no cable to follow at Lake Minnewaska. But I've compared swimming in that lake to swimming in bottled water - it's a treat.

Terry,

I don't know how you count strokes for 400m - razor sharp focus. That's one lap around the buoys - right? I have difficulty counting strokes in 50 meters :-). I pull the lanes at LAVC Aquatics Center, simulated open water - 25y lengths are just not nearly as fun as stretching your wings in any direction across the pool, and imagine I'm swimming in Lake Minnewaska.

Stuart
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  #54  
Old 08-02-2016
terry terry is offline
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Salvo,

There is no cable to follow at Lake Minnewaska. But I've compared swimming in that lake to swimming in bottled water - it's a treat.
Stuart, there is a cable, a bit less than 200m long. Salvo, the lake is mostly protected from wind because it's narrow and tucked between hills on one side and a high cliff on the other. It's open at the north and south ends. When there's wind it's nearly always from the north end so you do encounter some wind chop going north. However I swim a loop around the cable, so it evens out--into the wind going north, with the wind going south.

[quote=CoachStuartMcDougal;60070Terry,

I don't know how you count strokes for 400m - razor sharp focus. That's one lap around the buoys - right? I have difficulty counting strokes in 50 meters :-). I pull the lanes at LAVC Aquatics Center, simulated open water - 25y lengths are just not nearly as fun as stretching your wings in any direction across the pool, and imagine I'm swimming in Lake Minnewaska.

Stuart[/QUOTE]

Where you see me note stroke counts, I've simply divided my 400m time by my tempo. That gives me total strokes for 400m.
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  #55  
Old 08-02-2016
terry terry is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
I'm curious what your RPE was, but there is a nadir in your SPL at repeat #3 at a tempo of 1.14. You get faster after that and SPL goes up, but what was your effort level?

I'd like to see you able to hone in on the 6:00 pace (1.14 or 1.15 tempo) as it looks like that's a nice area where form/endurance still holds together, and then explore the faster tempos in shorter repeats.

Maybe something along the lines of
3 Rounds of 4 x 200m as 1.18, 1.16, 1.14, 1.12

You'd be fresher when you hit the 1.12 tempo. or do 2 rounds of 5 x 200m and take it down to 1.10 again.
Suzanne
Great analysis and advice. I would make virtually the same adjustments, except staying with 400m repeats, though it means I'm not as fresh later in the set. This is simply because on 200m repeats I have some wind or current assist going south and thus my times on odd/even 200s aren't repeatable.

My effort level wasn't noticeably greater on the last 2 x 400. I was trying to preserve efficiency by remaining light and relaxed. However I did begin feeling a slight edge of fatigue on those, due to being undertrained.
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  #56  
Old 08-02-2016
terry terry is offline
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Default Long Course Meters Practices on Consecutive Days

Sunday July 31 -- 2400 LCM at Ulster County Pool (Tempo + SPL)
Monday Aug 1 -- 2400 LCM at Ulster County Pool (SPL + Time)


I've had a pretty intense Gastro-intestinal complaint for the past six days, which wiped me out. I've swum a couple of times, but nothing I could post. However, I felt a slight degree of relief for brief periods the last two days and took advantage to get in two practices in the outdoor 50m pool in New Paltz. The weather was foreboding both days so I was sharing the pool with only one or two other swimmers.

Sunday I swam 400m - 4 x 100 - 400m - 4 x 100 - 400m - 8 x 50
On the 400s I swam without tempo and averaged 39 SPL
On the 100s I swam at 1.20 tempo and averaged 41 SPL
On the 50s I gradually increased tempo to 1.14 and continued to average 41 SPL.

Monday, I swam 3 rounds of 4 x 200 on 4:30. counting strokes and timing the 200s.
In each round of 200s I swam as follows
#1 Form Right and Left-Side Bodylines and hold during recovery. Hold--don't Press--on the stroke.
#2 Add Firm Hip Slide
#3 Add Firm Toe Flick
#4 Add Firm Press to armstroke

Round 1 Avg 39 SPL Descend 4:01 to 3:50
Round 2 Avg 39 SPL Descend 3:51 to 3:41
Round 3 Avg 40-41 SPL Descend 3:50 to 3:38

I was especially pleased with this set. I swam farther on these last two practices, despite being in the midst of a debilitating illness, and my times were quite respectable compared to those I swam for 200m repeats the last two summers.
Also I executed the sets exactly as I hoped to.
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  #57  
Old 08-27-2016
terry terry is offline
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Default One Week; Four Practices: Lake-Pool-Lake-Pool

It's been three weeks since I posted. Most of that time I've been laid a bit low by a combination of gastroenteritis and cellulitis. Both probably due to low white blood cell count following chemo. I swam 2-3x/week but mostly short and restorative.

This week I still need to take it pretty easy but decided to log what I did. I alternated lake and pool practices this week.

Tuesday 8/23 -- 1600m at Lake Minnewaska
I swam four 400-meter loops along the cable. Because my energy level was low, I swam quite gently.

On northbound 200m legs, I focused on forming long, sleek, stable lines with each side of my body; ‘holding my place’ by applying feather-light pressure with a soft lead hand; and avoiding water disturbance as I entered and rotated to form a new line.

Southbound, I counted strokes, trying to swim 200 meters in fewer than 190 strokes. It took laserlike concentration to reach the end of the cable in 188 to 189 perfect strokes.

Wednesday 8/24 -- 1600m at Ulster County Pool
I swam another mile in 8 repetitions of 200 meters. Again I swam gently, but I challenged myself to steadily increase my 200-meter pace while maintaining Stroke Length. My baseline focal points were the same as at the lake.

On my first 200, I averaged 43 strokes per 50-meter length and my 200 time was 4:00. On the next three repeats my time improved only slightly, to 3:57, but I gradually reduced stroke count to an average of 41 SPL by being softer and more patient with my lead hand. On the final four, I added back a few strokes per 200, while swimming slightly faster. On my final 200, I averaged 42 SPL and finished in 3:54.

Friday 8/26 -- 1600m at Lake Minnewaska
Today was another day of restorative pace swimming.
I did 4 sets of 2 x 200, each set with a new focal point, counting strokes on the 2nd 200 in each pair.
1st 400 (2 x 200) Weightless Head 190 strokes
2nd 400 Extend Bodyline and Open Axilla as I stretch forward. 181 strokes
3rd 400 Form lines with each side of body 183 strokes
4th 400 Move thru water like arrow thru air - slightly brisker pace 185 strokes
I felt really fantastic on the final 400m--really as good as I've ever felt. I think this was the product of being so focused on quality of sensation.

Sat 8/27 -- 2500m at Ulster County Pool
This was--by 100m--the longest practice I'd done all summer. But I felt really refreshed at the end, no doubt because I'd swum the entire thing at restorative pace.
I did this as a series of 4 x 500m continuous swims, with the final 500 as 5 x 100m, resting 5 cleansing breaths between. I counted strokes every length of the practice and sequenced focal points in an orderly way.
1st 500 Weightless Head - On non-breathing and especially breathing strokes, I strive to feel as if I'm resting the weight of my head on a 'pillow' of water molecules.
2nd 500 Weightless Head + Mail Slot Entry. Maintain focus from 1st 500. Add new focus of slipping forearm through same slot fingers cut on entry.
3rd 500 Mail Slot + Stretch Forward/Open Axilla. Maintain Mail Slot focus from 2nd 500. Add new focus on reaching forward until I feel the axilla or underarm open fully.
4th 500 Open Axilla + Form Lines. Maintain focus from 3rd 500. Add new focus on forming long sleek lines with each side of body after reaching forward and opening axilla.
5th 500 Form Line + Draw Line Maintain focus from 4th 500. Add new focus on drawing a parallel line with fingertips on recovery. I.E. Form and Hold a Line with right side of body, while drawing a parallel line with fingertips of right hand on recovery.

Stroke Count range remained steady between 41 and 44 SPL per 50m pool length.
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  #58  
Old 08-28-2016
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Terry,

some minor(?) questions, because I tried to work in similar FPs last weeks...

Quote:
...‘holding my place’ by applying feather-light pressure with a soft lead Hand...
Do I understand right? You're addressing both arms? Otherwise, when and where should pressure be addressed to the lead arm? (Thought never...)


Quote:
Extend Bodyline and Open Axilla as I stretch forward.
FP on open Axilla often causes (for me) what might be called EVF. Some might just wish it, but it most times causes some unwanted stress in my rotator cuffs. So what combined FP to "open Axilla" would you suggest to avoid that?

Quote:
.. being softer and more patient with my lead Hand..
Well, if you talk about a more Patient lead Hand, when do you let float your lower arm to set up the catch?

Quote:
Add new focus of slipping forearm through same slot fingers cut on entry.
Do you have rule of thumb how far in front you'll create the Slot to reach that? Is it a "just felt" constant or pace-, amount of rotation- or amount of shrugged shoulder dependent?

Glad if you'll find mood and time for an answer.

Best regards,
Werner
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  #59  
Old 08-28-2016
terry terry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello Terry,
Do I understand right? You're addressing both arms? Otherwise, when and where should pressure be addressed to the lead arm? (Thought never...)

Yes, both hands. I pay attention to each only during the moment when I'm trying to gently keep the hand in place.


FP on open Axilla often causes (for me) what might be called EVF. Some might just wish it, but it most times causes some unwanted stress in my rotator cuffs. So what combined FP to "open Axilla" would you suggest to avoid that?

I don't feel any strain in the cuff. Maybe because I keep my shoulder quite relaxed and mobile and the muscle activation that opens axilla is under the arm.

Well, if you talk about a more Patient lead Hand, when do you let float your lower arm to set up the catch?

It's only a micro-second more patient. I hold my place very consciously, but avoid holding so long that I introduce a hitch or pause in my overall rhythm.

Do you have rule of thumb how far in front you'll create the Slot to reach that? Is it a "just felt" constant or pace-, amount of rotation- or amount of shrugged shoulder dependent?
How far in front is indeed pace-dependent. Because I included a Mail Slot FP yesterday I was probably slightly shorter and steeper on entry.
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  #60  
Old 08-28-2016
terry terry is offline
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Default 20 x 100 with Tempo and SPL

Sunday 28 Aug 2000LCM at Ulster County Pool

I'm still not feeling totally in the pink, but I at least wore a pink cap today.;-)

Tuneup 4 x 100 Perfect/Cruise. I didn't use the Tempo Trainer on these. I only counted strokes. 1-3 I took 81 strokes (for 100m). On #4 I took 80.

Main Set 16 x 100 Tempo Pyramid
I started with Tempo at 1.14, then slowed by .04 each 100 until Tempo reached 1.30--guesstimating that I could hit stroke count from Tuneup somewhere in this range. Then I increased tempo by .02 returning to 1.14 and added another 2 x 100, increasing just .01 on each.
My starting stroke count was 89 for 100m at 1.14 (Time 1:49.4)
My lowest stroke count was 80 at 1.30 (Time 1:53.1)
My final stroke count at 1.12 was 87 (Time 1:45.2)

I'm quite happy about taking two fewer strokes at 1.12 than I had at 1.14 at start of set. And obviously it converted into a 4-second improvement for 100m.
I plan to do a 2nd swim today at Lake Minnewaska in late afternoon.
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