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  #21  
Old 03-30-2013
stratcat stratcat is offline
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I sae this sometime ago on "Bang goes the theory" which is one of my favourite TV science doco programs...

http://www.canterbury.ac.uk/news/new...sp?newsPk=1830

While the apparatus and the theory behind it aren't perfect (and if you can find footage of the demonstration this is not great) it may at least be ok as a starting point for further development. For instance, I'm not sure on the merits of "dry-land" swimming - I think they need to drop the whole thing into an endless pool. But the science of making these types of measurements has to start somewhere!

Chris

Last edited by stratcat : 03-30-2013 at 02:09 AM.
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  #22  
Old 03-30-2013
DD_l_enclume DD_l_enclume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Yesterday again, female, mid 20ties, good flexibility, ok technique, ex rower (Cambridge U in the UK), managed 14:30 for 750m in a race. That is a tidy bit slower than 1:55/100m.

My initial reaction (thanks god) is to look just as happy as everyone around her, since it was indeed a personal best and an improvement.

But that pace remains more than sustainable for me with a kick board chat kicking...

why why why...
Can't it just be that you spent 10 years swimming at an early age (I dunno, like 10), and she just started a few month ago?
We old learner will never be able to sustain that pace "with a kick board chat kicking... "

It's just the same in any technical activity. You can take music. Or learning a new language.
I read a lot and have more english vocabulary than my 12 yo nephew. I can compete on that level. But she already got an "native" accent that I can only dream of.

You fast swimmers have been shaped early. And you have something we are all chasing but that we will never reach.

But !!! ....we may have more happiness in that quest that you do just being fast :-)
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  #23  
Old 03-30-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD_l_enclume View Post
Can't it just be that you spent 10 years swimming at an early age (I dunno, like 10), and she just started a few month ago?
There's a part of my job which will forever be devoted to research.

You're spot on obviously. Swimming is best learned at early age. I'm not going to argue there. But as long as I don't know why you're right, I ain't going to be satisfied.
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  #24  
Old 03-30-2013
dprevish dprevish is offline
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Charles,

I think that DD hit it pretty close on the "time investment" concept. It took me many hours and years for the violin as a perfect example and I'm still learning.
My hopes in life are always that there's a quick fix to improvement, but just like drawing sound out of a bow; little by little you play back and forth with things that as Terry says are the difference between "not quite and right".
However, your on to something and there must be a way to peel the layers back on this all to understand it better.
Keep thinking; meantime thanks for you and everyone's support!
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  #25  
Old 03-30-2013
DD_l_enclume DD_l_enclume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
I ain't going to be satisfied.
I hope so Charles.
That thread was another one of yours that's going to land in my bookmarks.
Please keep thinking, asking and posting : that's good organic vegan food for our brain.
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  #26  
Old 03-30-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dprevish View Post
Charles,

I think that DD hit it pretty close on the "time investment" concept. It took me many hours and years for the violin as a perfect example and I'm still learning.
My hopes in life are always that there's a quick fix to improvement, but just like drawing sound out of a bow; little by little you play back and forth with things that as Terry says are the difference between "not quite and right".
However, your on to something and there must be a way to peel the layers back on this all to understand it better.
Keep thinking; meantime thanks for you and everyone's support!
I almost accumulated a degree in music, and I really hesitate comparing swimming with playing a instrument such as a violin.... But that is another story.

Back from a first session with one of the lady. Will post footage soon.

Bottom line. Within 60min, I took here from 1:56/100m down to 1:45 per 100m (over 400m, so sustainable).

Same ol same ol. Too much drag, too much wait in the front (over gliding), crossing over, and a pulling path that was anything but *pure*.

Didn't have much time, it's just the beginning. But I believe she'll soon be holding 1:40/100m which is what she deserves.

If I was buying your *things take time* argument, I would probably *not* have good coaching pro bonno on an Easter Saturday. But I refuse to buy it (no offense).
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  #27  
Old 03-31-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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This is case #2, critical swim speed recorded at 1:56/100m on Thursday the 28th over 750m. It's fairly classical. Been working on DPS for the last couple of months (I'm not involved at all in this). And like too many people, instead of buying her DPS by developing better stroke mechanics, she spends way to much (in general) at the front.

If you ask someone to give less strokes per length, then there's a chance that that person puts more mental focus in stretching further up front to grab more water, ie increasing the reach. The thing though is that the big danger is to start building false feel for water. You feel it (and that lady has great feel for water), then you go hard on gestures that won't propel you forward. This is exactly what can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXpv1lVV36w

She's wanting so much to pull big gears (ie, less stroke) that she's almost catch up stroke.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 03-31-2013 at 02:16 AM.
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  #28  
Old 03-31-2013
dprevish dprevish is offline
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Charles,

No offense taken at all. I'm one of those self coached folks with a TI DVD and a whole lot of faith. Yet many times the progress I notice is very incremental, I may have a incorrect perspective based on my own experiences.
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  #29  
Old 03-31-2013
CoachBillG CoachBillG is offline
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I'm more curious about the 700 to 800 push ups in 20 minutes. Are you sure you are counting correctly?

If you did 700 push ups you would need to do minimum of 35 push ups per minute or 1 push up every 1.74 seconds.

If you did 800 push ups you would need to do a minimum of 40 push ups per minute or 1 push up every 1.39 seconds.

Regardless whether it was 700 or 800 you would need to be in almost continual motion for the entire 20 minutes as it takes almost 2 seconds to do a push up (.50 sec. down. .50 sec. at the bottom, .50 sec. pushing up and .50 sec. at the top).

If you do it in 6 to 7 sets, you are saying that you do sets of 100 to 125 reps. I don't see where the breaks could possibly occur.

I've met only a handful of people who can do 100 strict push ups in a row (with me being one of them) and I can tell you by the 70th rep. you begin to slow down and pause more than .50 sec. at the top portion of the exercise as fatigue and lactic acid buildup occur. The fastest I've done 100 strict pushups in a row (without stopping / going to my knees) is 3:30 seconds or an average cadence of 1 pushup every 2.1 second with 1.3 sec. being my starting cadence and 3.3 being my ending cadence. The goal wasn't to do them fast but to do the entire 100 pushups. There is no way in the World I could continue doing another 600 more push ups in the remaining 16 minutes and 30 seconds.

I am a full-time athletic performance coach who trains athletes in other disciplines besides freestyle swimming (including kettlebells (GS Sport), CrossFit, bodyweight training and general strength & conditioning) and have never seen anything like what you said. Even the great Herschel Walker, who does about 1500 pushups per day, does it with numerous breaks, would be hard pressed to do 700 pushups in 20 minutes.....and that is a man who has been doing this type of training for 35 years.

I don't mean to attack you or challenge you in anyway, but your claim doesn't seem possible.

If you could please explain more how you do this I would love to know and apply it to mine and my athlete's programs. I am preparing for the NY State Kettlebell Championships and could use all the help I can get :-)
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  #30  
Old 03-31-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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This guy is holding just over 1 second and he is short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X77rcwQXAjk

I think I'll try standard width push ups on a tabata set (8*20 second, 10 second rest) and see how many I can get to
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