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  #11  
Old 03-17-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
It seems that she has a really wide pull and pulls back quite a bit more than usual under her body .Or at least more than TI would recommend.
But look at how her elbows stay high and her arms anchor so well they seem to stop as her body is pulled forward and up. She gets her hips up when she kicks. Her kick is excellent. Maybe she dives a little too much.
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2009
daveblt daveblt is offline
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I can see what you mean .She does have a nice wide , round pull.

Dave
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2009
CoachEricDeSanto CoachEricDeSanto is offline
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I believe we have to be careful when looking at Elite swimmers breast stroke pull. To me, the priority is to get head to breathe and fall back into the water with no break in the motion. It must be totally smooth. Many elite can do this and have a large, wide pull, more height, etc. Most of us normal folks, must use a much smaller, narrower, lower pull to get that smoothness. I believe you can increase your pull (which will create more power) only as long as you can maintain a smooth transition from insweep to recovery.
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2009
pinda pinda is offline
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I started practising a wide pull because I saw others doing it. To be honest my short pull worked wonders as far as I am concerned. I thought also the wide pull was the best way to keep my elbows high. I am 5ft 11 in tall but have a 6ft wing span. What is the best way to utilize my long arms.

Last edited by pinda : 03-19-2009 at 04:50 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachEricD View Post
I believe we have to be careful when looking at Elite swimmers breast stroke pull. To me, the priority is to get head to breathe and fall back into the water with no break in the motion. It must be totally smooth. Many elite can do this and have a large, wide pull, more height, etc. Most of us normal folks, must use a much smaller, narrower, lower pull to get that smoothness. I believe you can increase your pull (which will create more power) only as long as you can maintain a smooth transition from insweep to recovery.
The point of linking the video was to show undulation, not so much how to pull.

It might be a good idea to work on "rear-wheel" drive in the breaststroke anyway. That way, if you switch to a more arms-dominant stroke, your arms will be more fresh while your legs can relax more.
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  #16  
Old 04-09-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Originally Posted by pinda View Post
How do you make height in breaststroke while trying to keep you chin tucked and you eyes down in the recovery.
I've been getting a little higher in the water recently. The funny thing is that I was working on the position of my legs as I pull, not on just getting higher in the water. My aim was to pull the legs forward while the legs were more streamlined. To do that, I used more core muscles while anchoring with the arms. It also felt like I could actually lift my back up somehow. Maybe there is a slight bracing effect with the legs straighter and the arms anchored.

In any case, basically, from the Y position, anchor your arms and use your core to pull your body forward while avoiding the feeling of drag on around your heels. You might just pop up a little higher in the process.
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  #17  
Old 04-10-2009
daveblt daveblt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuumai View Post
I

[ In any case, basically, from the Y position, anchor your arms and use your core to pull your body forward while avoiding the feeling of drag on around your heels. .
Or in other words you can think of drawing your hips and abs toward your hands.

Dave
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  #18  
Old 04-10-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
Or in other words you can think of drawing your hips and abs toward your hands.
Yes and no. With the added emphasis on the feet, things started to feel better. I was also visualising what I've seen in videos of the pros. Unlike them, I think I draw my feet up to early.
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  #19  
Old 04-12-2009
terry terry is offline
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If by "height" in Breaststroke, you mean vertical lift above the surface during the breath, I'll echo what Eric said. It takes two things to make it work: (1) an unusually favorable strength-to-weight ratio (very lean or light, but very strong) and (2) impeccable technique and timing.

Everyone on this forum who has both of those -- or even one - please raise your (electronic) hands. Not me.

Breaststroke, as does Fly, is swum in a "sine wave" pattern. Waves have two properties - amplitude (height) and length. Increasing one comes at the cost of the other. Since wave length, moves us in the direction we're going, I opt to prioritize that. There are two ways to increase wave length - streamline better and limit amplitude.

I'd suggest the following to swim "tall" rather than "high" in breaststroke
1) Think about the moment in your stroke when your bodyline is shortest - when the hands turn in and heels come toward your buttocks. At that moment, focus on keeping hands and feet as far apart as possible.
2) As you return underwater for the glide, try to slip barely beneath the surface. Avoid diving. Think of swimming barely-under/barely-over the surface.

Our Breaststroke for Every Body DVD illustrates a drill sequence that teaches this style and technique.
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Last edited by terry : 04-12-2009 at 02:22 PM.
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  #20  
Old 04-12-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
If by "height" in Breaststroke, you mean vertical lift above the surface during the breath, I'll echo what Eric said. It takes two things to make it work: (1) an unusually favorable strength-to-weight ratio (very lean or light, but very strong) and (2) impeccable technique and timing.

Everyone on this forum who has both of those -- or even one - please raise your (electronic) hands. Not me.

Breaststroke, as does Fly, is swum in a "sine wave" pattern. Waves have two properties - amplitude (height) and length. Increasing one comes at the cost of the other. Since wave length, moves us in the direction we're going, I opt to prioritize that. There are two ways to increase wave length - streamline better and limit amplitude.

I'd suggest the following to swim "tall" rather than "high" in breaststroke
1) Think about the moment in your stroke when your bodyline is shortest - when the hands turn in and heels come toward your buttocks. At that moment, focus on keeping hands and feet as far apart as possible.
2) As you return underwater for the glide, try to slip barely beneath the surface. Avoid diving. Think of swimming barely-under/barely-over the surface.

Our Breaststroke for Every Body DVD illustrates a drill sequence that teaches this style and technique.
Are you suggesting a compromise between a flat style and a wave style?

I think the original question was how to maintain a good head alignment while being able to get the head high enough to breathe easily. That was a struggle for me in the beginning. I thought it wasn't possible for me.

It seems that vertical height can be partially controlled by the timing of the heels coming forward. Heels coming forward early makes it easier to get the body, or maybe just the head, higher while adding drag due to body angle. Heels coming forward later offers better streamlining, but maybe requires more strength or flexibility to gain height. So, over time as conditioning and feel improve, timing and technique should be adjusted.

Ed Moses said something about getting the arms and legs to go along for the ride as the core does its thing. (Paraphrased!)
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