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  #11  
Old 12-24-2011
FrustratedStephen FrustratedStephen is offline
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In a separate thread I've said that my best swims often come when I simply relax and swim.
Perhaps I should listen to myself every once in a while.

Thanks for all your advice, it's been invaluable.
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  #12  
Old 12-24-2011
BigBlue BigBlue is offline
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For this hip rotation movement to work, it has to be in sync with the arm recovery and the catch of the extended arm (i have seen videos on youtube called "catch and throw" for the arms). and you have to be tightening your belly, and do all of this consistently all the time... so much energy and effort..

for all of this to work with less energy and effort, somehow the extending arm has to "hold the water" and give you balance. I have not been able to "hold on to the water" or "use it as an anchor", especially when breathing. so i figure somehow this has to be a timing issue with everything going on. i have not been able to figure it out though.
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  #13  
Old 12-25-2011
FrustratedStephen FrustratedStephen is offline
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Thanks BigBlue, you put it better than I did. I can't figure it out either, hence the thread.
'Holding the water' & 'using it as an anchor' are sensations I have yet to experience, especially, as you say, when breathing.

I suppose timing will come with time, I just didn't want to be practicing incorrect and unhelpful sequences, especially as spearing is so fundamental in providing the forward momentum in the TI technique. Bad habits are hard to get rid of. I would rather get it correct, in my mind at least, at the beginning of my learning process.
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  #14  
Old 12-25-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrustratedStephen View Post
Thanks for your help.
I find it hard to move my body as one entity. The top wants to surge and power forward but the bottom half doesn't. It just follows.
I also find it difficult to find something to liken a hip movement with. With my top half I can compare it with throwing or punching, so I know what it should feel like. I need something similar for my hips.
What could you compare a hip movement to? A jump, perhaps?
When a boxer punches, or a player swings a softball bat the hips rotate to create power, its the same with TI. Try throwing a good punch in front of the mirror without moving your hips.
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  #15  
Old 12-25-2011
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Stephen,

I don't know if this will help. One of the dry land exercises I practice for getting hip body rotation in unison is the following.

Stand in front of a mirror feet planted hip width apart. Keeping your head silent as in non breath stroke, rotate from your hips to your shoulders left and right. This is not a major rotation. Observe what happens. Do your shoulders lead? Are you able to keep shoulders still while leading with hips?

This exercise has gotten easier for me as in the beginning this rotation wanted to start from shoulders and move through torso to hips. Ideally it should all happen in unison.

I even practice this with the hips leading ever so slightly now. Sounds easy but being one who is not coordinated great concentrate was necessary to train the neuro circuits on dry land. Transferring to water is a whole new ball game although much better than before.

Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #16  
Old 12-25-2011
jtravis jtravis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
I think you are overthinking it. let go of every part of your body except the high side hip and the arm that's about to spear. Don't think about the feet or the currently extended arm. Use the high side hip to push the spearing arm forward. That visualization works for probably 99% of my students, but I frequently have to get them to let go of many other things. Don't worry if you move forward or not, don't think about propulsion. Don't think about timing of the kick or feet. Lots of things will take care of themselves. Use your hip to help spear the hand.
In the clinic, they said to kick with the low leg to initiate the switch (I think I've read that on the forums too). Would you agree with this? If so, how does this mesh with what you said about the high side hip causing the hand to spear? Should I be able to do the switch with the hips only (no kicking)? If so, then are you saying that once I add the kicking, my correct leg will automatically kick?
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2011
rbs24h rbs24h is offline
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Not a coach of TI, so all input is welcome to correct me.

In the 10 lesson DVD, I think the 2 beat kick is Lesson 8. So if you are able to initiate with the kick, go ahead. If you are having trouble, go ahead and initiate with high hip and address the kick initiating later. The point is not to let it keep you from progressing as you can add 2 beat kick in later. That is how I did it. It was easier for me to just streamline or flutter or just not worry about legs at the start. Once I got the feeling, the kick was much easier to add.

Good luck.
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2011
Butiki Butiki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtravis View Post
In the clinic, they said to kick with the low leg to initiate the switch (I think I've read that on the forums too). Would you agree with this? If so, how does this mesh with what you said about the high side hip causing the hand to spear? Should I be able to do the switch with the hips only (no kicking)? If so, then are you saying that once I add the kicking, my correct leg will automatically kick?
What Coach S said meshes - it's just said differently. The low leg initiates the kick but the high hip drives down. All in timing with the spear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbs24h View Post
Not a coach of TI, so all input is welcome to correct me.

In the 10 lesson DVD, I think the 2 beat kick is Lesson 8. So if you are able to initiate with the kick, go ahead. If you are having trouble, go ahead and initiate with high hip and address the kick initiating later. The point is not to let it keep you from progressing as you can add 2 beat kick in later. That is how I did it. It was easier for me to just streamline or flutter or just not worry about legs at the start. Once I got the feeling, the kick was much easier to add.

Good luck.
This is how I learned the hip rotation + spear switching too, i.e. by forgetting about the legs and adding the kick later. When I first started out, all I focused on was the hip drive and weight shift and let the legs just kick with a relaxed and gentle tempo. Then later, I added a focus on quieting down the legs. Then much much later, I added just letting go of the legs and pausing them at each switch - just streamlining them behind me. This led to learning the 2-beat-kick.
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  #19  
Old 12-26-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Before that comes the comfort with understanding your angled buoyancy position. Start off in superman glide, and gently rotate 33 degrees or so, you will suddenly feel a sticky balance boint where you can just sit on your lungs, when I was learning it felt very exact.

Once you have a clear understanding of that position, just use your spearing arm and hips to help you reach that position quickly and efficiently.
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2011
Janos Janos is offline
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Stephen, there are certain aspects of the stroke that are 'non-negotiable'. As already stated you can play about with the kick, but the high side of your shoulder and its connection to your catch hand are key. Everything else follows this important relationship. The recovery arm goes through its forward motion, and the shoulder is still high, the leading hand is placed into the water, the shoulder has dropped slightly. At this point, the downward dropping of the shoulder, and its connection to your hip drive must act against your catch for maximum drive. This is best practised using the spearswitch drill. You will see that the lower your high side shoulder the less power you can muster. Once you have worked out how the kinetic chain works, you can then integrate the kick, which will be much easier once your body is gliding in balance.
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