Rotation - Over Rotation vs Just Enough

[CoachKris]

aquarius since we are on basic physics i will show you my point of view on it
Any object on the move has kinetic energy, on land most of that kinetic energy is being wasted on fighting with gravity, but once you will give some amount of kinetic energy to anything it can move as long as it wont be stopped by external forces, example any object thrown in space will 'fly' for ages, or bullet can travel miles even thou it doesn't have any sort of mechanism generating propulsion.
Now imagine yourself that your arm is a bullet and rotation is a gun that gives your arm that kinetic energy by accelerating mass of your arm to certain speed. Buoyancy reduces gravity so biggest enemy of kinetic energy just died(sure they can be friends for a while if you throw something out of the plane for example but eventually object will hit the ground and friendship is over). So your arm with a good bit of potential energy has just entered water and as it stays attached to the rest of your body it pulls it through until its kinetic energy is used on overpowering water resistance.
Going back to our gun imagine yourself that you've managed to connect bullet to your gun with a rope what will happen to a gun after firing? it will follow your bullet, right?

But thats my point of view on physics and I'm not an expert at those ;)
p.s. to be able to feel it you really have to get your balance and streamline right in a first place

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by CoachKris

aquarius since we are on basic physics i will show you my point of view on it
Any object on the move has kinetic energy, on land most of that kinetic energy is being wasted on fighting with gravity, but once you will give some amount of kinetic energy to anything it can move as long as it wont be stopped by external forces, example any object thrown in space will 'fly' for ages, or bullet can travel miles even thou it doesn't have any sort of mechanism generating propulsion.
Now imagine yourself that your arm is a bullet and rotation is a gun that gives your arm that kinetic energy by accelerating mass of your arm to certain speed. Buoyancy reduces gravity so biggest enemy of kinetic energy just died(sure they can be friends for a while if you throw something out of the plane for example but eventually object will hit the ground and friendship is over). So your arm with a good bit of potential energy has just entered water and as it stays attached to the rest of your body it pulls it through until its kinetic energy is used on overpowering water resistance.
Going back to our gun imagine yourself that you've managed to connect bullet to your gun with a rope what will happen to a gun after firing? it will follow your bullet, right?

But thats my point of view on physics and I'm not an expert at those ;)
p.s. to be able to feel it you really have to get your balance and streamline right in a first place

I managed today to reach the 4th floor without using the lift, just by throwing both arms up in the air. What a feeling.

[CoachKris]

Originally Posted by fjconti72

I managed today to reach the 4th floor without using the lift, just by throwing both arms up in the air. What a feeling.

Without gravity force there would be nothing that could stop you from doing so :)

Lawrence I'm sorry if it make you confused I've been trying my best to keep it real simple

[CoachKris]

My guess is that you've degree in physics if you can judge my lvl of understanding physics so quickly, so please share your knowledge and prove me wrong. And I'm glad that you've been there before but I didn't so elaborate a bit more please.

[CoachKris]

Lawrence since you want to get into 3rd newtons law just put a wall behind gun and everything is signing and dancing ;)

I'm guessing thats the one you are on about:
http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...ead.php?t=2028

well I finished reading it and I am a bit disappointed I was expecting some geeky physic staff and you've just posted an art about propellers in planes and argue whether everything you do is pushing or pulling to end up agreeing that there is only force

Action reaction rule applies to 2 bodies reacting with each other if you take water to be one body and you being second one then yes in the same time you are pushing water back and water pushes you forward with same energy. But there is more laws in physic then newton 3rd law but dont worry you are not the first one who based his concept on swimming sole on the 3 law, some even written books on that... refer to newtons first law as well if we dont want to look to far

so once again please elaborate more

[CoachKris]

I'm doing my best and I'm sure you did get my point. English is not my native language so I apologize for any mistakes that I do and I hope that my poor English wont be an excuse for you to finish this conversation.

[aquarius]

Originally Posted by CoachKris

aquarius since we are on basic physics i will show you my point of view on it
Any object on the move has kinetic energy, on land most of that kinetic energy is being wasted on fighting with gravity, but once you will give some amount of kinetic energy to anything it can move as long as it wont be stopped by external forces, example any object thrown in space will 'fly' for ages, or bullet can travel miles even thou it doesn't have any sort of mechanism generating propulsion.
Now imagine yourself that your arm is a bullet and rotation is a gun that gives your arm that kinetic energy by accelerating mass of your arm to certain speed.

So, your hand is a bullet. What you're saying (and others with you) is that simply rotating the barrel of your gun along the cylinder's axis will send the bullet to its target. All I can say is: good luck!

[JBeaty]

Originally Posted by CoachKris

I'm doing my best and I'm sure you did get my point. English is not my native language so I apologize for any mistakes that I do and I hope that my poor English wont be an excuse for you to finish this conversation.

Kris, your english isn't the problem. Please keep posting your thoughts. Lawerence has a tendency to be a snob.

[JBeaty]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

An intellectual snob, yes, if that means I don't have time for people who are too busy or lazy to formulate a coherent sentence, but nevertheless expect the rest of us to decode it then spend more time answering it.

There is a better way of getting your point across, without being rude. Instead of "write it in english" you could say " I don't understand your point, in the way it is written. Will you please try to clarify"

Or is bineg plotie to hrad for you to unersdtnad?

[Zoner]

Eight weeks ago I swore I was the one person that couldn't float. A friend of mine laughed his butt off as I slapped the surface of the water hoping to move forward. I bought the TI DVD and started heading to the pool to fight the embarrassment 3-4 times a week since. I read everything I can and watch as many youtube videos that I can fit in over lunch. The bottom line is, from a total beginner, with no swim habits to break, the rotation/propulsion makes total sense to me. Learning (ongoing) the 2 beat kick surely drives the energy up to the hip in my mind. With good timing, I'm convinced it helps push me forward. The kick, the pull, and the spear all at one time isn't the most natural thing yet for me, but I can feel my body rotate when done correctly. Its done another thing....got my friend's attention. No more laughing, because I can move through the water at a pretty good pace now and am down to 20 SPL in a 25 yard pool. I guess the thing that sticks out when reading all the debate whether or not something works is, just try it. Life is about trusting that what you're doing will net the result you want. So trial and error. If it works, do more of that. If it doesn't, move on to something else. I'm pretty sure we don't have to understand all the laws of quantum physics to be a better swimmer. All I know is I'm a believer based on my improvement.