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  #1  
Old 07-27-2013
ananthaditya ananthaditya is offline
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Default Breathing and lead hand position

Is it natural for the lead hand to rise a little when rolling to air?
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  #2  
Old 07-27-2013
CoachToby CoachToby is offline
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If you mean rolling to air during drill practise (i.e. Sweet Spot) then this is quite normal. When you're face down the lead arm should be angled down slightly with hand below the elbow. When you roll to a face up position, the arm will naturally mirror this position, with the wrist slightly above the elbow. Try to avoid letting the hand clear the water; this will require a slight adjustment of the angle when coming to a face up position. Keeping the shoulder relaxed when rolling will help.

Last edited by CoachToby : 07-30-2013 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 07-29-2013
ananthaditya ananthaditya is offline
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Thanks for your reply.

You said:

Quote:
When you roll to a face up position, the arm will naturally mirror this position, with the wrist slightly above the elbow.
While this is true for an interrupted whole stroke or for drilling, what is the natural position of the lead arm when you're taking continuous breaths while whole-stroking?

Many TI swimmers appear to be craning their necks to the side quite a bit for air, which seems a little contradictory to the instruction of 'rolling' to air. Take this video for instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8-ferFcKxQ

So I take it that's the way to go if you're swimming at faster tempos?

Last edited by ananthaditya : 07-29-2013 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 07-29-2013
Rincewind Rincewind is offline
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One way is to imagine there is an invisible link between the tip of your chin and the shoulder of the pulling arm, so as you go through the pull and your shoulder rotates up your head goes with it.

This video illustrates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_7wx06VsSM

Last edited by Rincewind : 07-29-2013 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 07-30-2013
ananthaditya ananthaditya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
One way is to imagine there is an invisible link between the tip of your chin and the shoulder of the pulling arm, so as you go through the pull and your shoulder rotates up your head goes with it.

This video illustrates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_7wx06VsSM
Just what I needed. Thanks.
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Old 07-30-2013
helixfairweather helixfairweather is offline
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If we presed chin to shoulder as in this video clip, we would be taking our lead hand off its wide track, wouldn't we? Or does one practice this only a very little bit so we don't imprint something we don't really want?

What would be a more-TI-like solution?

Helix Fairweather
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2013
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helixfairweather View Post
If we presed chin to shoulder as in this video clip, we would be taking our lead hand off its wide track, wouldn't we? Or does one practice this only a very little bit so we don't imprint something we don't really want?

What would be a more-TI-like solution?

Helix Fairweather
GoSwim has an excellent video describing and demonstrating the early breath (as well as long/late breath). I normally use the focal "chin follows shoulder" (one of Terry's gems) as opposed to "chin pressing shoulder". The later focal has a tendency for swimmer to rush and whip the head before body rolls. 'Chin follows shoulder' is more subtle and gives sense to roll head with body and not try to push. As opposite arm spears forward on wide tracks, you should have your breath at extension, as recovery arm is just exiting the water forward. If you find your lead arm pushing down to buoyant head, your breath is either too late and/or too long. Get breath early (chin follows shoulder) and get it quick.

Stuart
MindBodyAndSWIM

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 07-30-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 07-30-2013
helixfairweather helixfairweather is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
I normally use the focal "chin follows shoulder" (one of Terry's gems) as opposed to "chin pressing shoulder". The later focal has a tendency for swimmer to rush and whip the head before body rolls. 'Chin follows shoulder' is more subtle and gives sense to roll head with body and not try to push.
Thank you, Coach Stuart! That makes more sense to me.

Helix Fairweather
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Old 07-30-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthaditya View Post
Thanks for your reply.

You said:



While this is true for an interrupted whole stroke or for drilling, what is the natural position of the lead arm when you're taking continuous breaths while whole-stroking?

Many TI swimmers appear to be craning their necks to the side quite a bit for air, which seems a little contradictory to the instruction of 'rolling' to air. Take this video for instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8-ferFcKxQ

So I take it that's the way to go if you're swimming at faster tempos?
Gadi is pretty dense and swims well balanced...but slightly below the water. If you pause the video during his breath, his head is tilted a bit to the side... personally would not describe him as 'craning'. Were he to swim faster he'd have a bigger better bow wave in front of him and he could breath with a more neutral head position.

Have a look at some of the breaths in this video, particularly starting around 32 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp58SaDDz7s
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachToby View Post
Yes, this is quite normal. When you're face down the lead arm should be angled down slightly with hand below the elbow. When you roll to a face up position, the arm will naturally mirror this position, with the wrist slightly above the elbow. Try to avoid letting the hand clear the water; this will require a slight adjustment of the angle when coming to a face up position. Keeping the shoulder relaxed when rolling will help.

With all due respect Toby, I'll say it's common, but should be avoided. The upsweeping movement causes slowing and puts the arm in a position further away from the catch. Everyone's flexibility, body density and current skill level will cause the specific arm position to vary a bit...but here is an excellent demo of a very "Dense" swimmer getting to air easily, albeit sneakily, while keeping arm position in a better spot to avoid slowing.

Please watch to the end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-vNJ...5E36E85540BD01
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Fresh Freestyle

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