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  #21  
Old 02-05-2012
terry terry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galax View Post
I'm 5'10" and the pool is 25meters long.
Galax A 25m SPL of 16 at your height is a bit too ambitious. You should give yourself a bit more freedom. As Suzanne made clear -- and Ashby fails to understand -- the TI goal is not to minimize stroke count. It's to optimize -- to find the most economical and sustainable SPL for both the pace and distance you wish to swim.
Informed TI swimmers typically work across a range of about 4 SPL for freestyle in a 25y/m pool. Our goals are to
1) be equally smooth at the top and bottom of our range
2) have great facility in calibrating our count - i.e. decide to swim a particular SPL and nail it with little or no end-of-lap adjustments.
3) have equal mastery at adjusting the count - to be able to swim 15-16-17 on subsequent lengths . . . or 17-16-15.
4) To be able to adjust both length and rate strategically to maintain or improve pace in response to fatigue or a racing situation.

For a great example of a quintessential TI SPL-Mastery practice see Coach Todd's example in Post #3 of this thread.
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  #22  
Old 02-05-2012
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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I am 5'10" myself and swim in 25m pools and can swim at SPL 16, sometimes hitting 14, best was 11 or 12, don't quite remember. When seriously swimming I am at 17-21 with the majority of laps being at 18-19. In the beginning I tried to swim with a low SPL, now I do that only for reference. I try to swim with an optimal SPL and that seems to be 18-19 for me - open to changes.
But it is more that I swim a lap and then check what the SPL was.
This still amazes me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
...
3) have equal mastery at adjusting the count - to be able to swim 15-16-17 on subsequent lengths . . . or 17-16-15.
I had that question before and didn't get a satisfying answer. How do you adjust the SPL, particularly how to swim the same length with a higher SPL? Assuming that you don't try to get sloppy in your stroke, what parameter do you change? Speed? Stroke length? ???
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  #23  
Old 02-05-2012
Grant Grant is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
Thanks mike. I think that video has room to be interpreted incorrectly. The still.pauses where the text overlay says to snap appear (to me) to be in what I describe as the "meaty" part of the stroke when the forearm is around a vertical angle near.the waist...this is the most powerful part of the stroking movement when velocity is fastest in the water. I dont see a "wrist snap" but experimentation is always what we are after here so try it and see what you think.

When I get to that part of the stroke I'm thinking.g of press, not pull or snap.
This has been a great thread and I am a little late in replying to your last sentence. Please forgive the tardiness. :0)
What I am trying (they say don't try - do) to express is this. Snapping conotates flexing the wrist. I find if I keep the hand in line with the forearm and just increase the speed of the forearm/hand unit at the end of the "press" then the release happens smoothly and the arm exits the water where it should.
Hope this is clear
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  #24  
Old 02-05-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
This has been a great thread and I am a little late in replying to your last sentence. Please forgive the tardiness. :0)
What I am trying (they say don't try - do) to express is this. Snapping conotates flexing the wrist. I find if I keep the hand in line with the forearm and just increase the speed of the forearm/hand unit at the end of the "press" then the release happens smoothly and the arm exits the water where it should.
Hope this is clear
Yes, of course, that makes more sense. I guess I tend to deliberately not thing about end of teh stroke other than "shrugging" my elbow away in to the side. In last summers videos I always looked (to me) to be cutting it short. Now that I've tuned in more to pressing the water (yet still not doing what I would call "finishing" ) I feel a much longer stroke, routinely hit 11 & 12 SPL in warmup with constant (slow) stroking and I think it looks better too. I'll post a video (above water) from Maho Bay.

(I don't by any means try to swim at 11/12...that's ONLY for slow easy warmup...or drafting someone also swimming lieasurely!!) My typical SPL is more like 16/17 for easy 100s, and my fast swimming is 19/20. SPLs of 18/19 feel strong and fast but not overly fatiguing. Sprints are 22, sometimes even 25, but I think that's too high.

Thanks for all the great discussion.

Here is also a post I wrote just last night that is somewhat related to this thread...I intend to get it posted here @ TI as well.
http://www.steelcityendurance.com/sw...right-way.html
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  #25  
Old 02-05-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Here it is on the TI coach blogs:
http://www.totalimmersion.net/myblog...right-way.html
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  #26  
Old 02-05-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post


I had that question before and didn't get a satisfying answer. How do you adjust the SPL, particularly how to swim the same length with a higher SPL? Assuming that you don't try to get sloppy in your stroke, what parameter do you change? Speed? Stroke length? ???
for me its reach, its very relaxing to just put my arm forward, still quite relaxing to rotate it fully forward with a good reach.

A lot more tiring to reach like I am trying to get hold of something just out of reach.

these three sensations would correspond to perhaps 14-16 and 18SPL at the same SR, where my long term goal would be to hold 16 over a long distance, just at the fringe of working comfortable. I will train the 14's and 15's to make the 16's feel loose, physically and mentally.

At different SR's these numbers may be 13-15-17, or 16-18-20.
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  #27  
Old 02-05-2012
CoachShinjiT CoachShinjiT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
Thanks mike. I think that video has room to be interpreted incorrectly.
Well, my arm snap and leg snap have the same objective and meaning.
If "wrist snap" gives wrong perception, I would say "elbow snap".
Wrists and ankles are both loose when I snap both arms and legs.
If we can change the speed of hand motion very rapidly, it can create force (F=ma) and snapping is the easiest way to add acceleration. By getting the force, you do not need to use your shoulder muscle to bring your arm forward. Opening the armpit takes care the rest. That is how I swim.
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  #28  
Old 02-05-2012
rbs24h rbs24h is offline
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Andy,

I missed it if you explained your new signature. Posting latest PR"s I guess, is this one each 25m, spl of 16, held for 100m tt?
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  #29  
Old 02-05-2012
rbs24h rbs24h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbs24h View Post
Andy,

I missed it if you explained your new signature. Posting latest PR"s I guess, is this one each 25m, spl of 16, held for 100m tt?
with a PR of 1.14?
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  #30  
Old 02-06-2012
tab tab is offline
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I have been ice skating, such fun. We skated for hours on a daily basis when we were young. So easy to put the skates on and go and I have not skated but once or twice a year since, no learning curve like I am experiencing in swimming, swimming is a beautiful thing too. But Shinji's snap post provoked me. Long graceful arcs, from one foot to the other, just slipping along, there is a flick at the end of each arc enhance by the entire body. So similar, I believe.
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