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  #11  
Old 06-28-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Did 500 tonight

The thing that stroke me is that at slower pace, there remain an uncomfortable component to this stroke, which makes it very physical. Problem when you can swim it extra slow isn't aerobic, it is that after a whilst, you feel it in your neck, and I donno.

It's a tough stroke to swim for a full kilo, when you're out of shape. I could have continued tonight, but I would have paid the price. I'm out of shape, I love to get back in shape using the Fly. I keep the swims real short as I don't have much time. I usually jump in the pool, and go fly full stroke only, then get out and go in the gym, or elsewhere.
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2013
craig.arnold@gmail.com craig.arnold@gmail.com is offline
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Congratulations Suzanne.

600 yards is impressive.

However, if you want something truly mind-boggling consider Julie Bradshaw who has done both the Channel and the Manhatten Island swim using the butterfly, and holds 19 world records.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature...&v=fQDuG-HxrS4
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Today I swam 1200 meters of sculling dolphin as a set of 48x25. I wish I could say that I had swum it continuously as full stroke butterfly but it is a start.

The motivation for this was the fact that yesterday, more or less as expected, I was once again disqualified for the butterfly leg of my long course 200 IM in the Garrison Sports Centre in Aldershot. I was informed by the official when I asked for my splits that the first part had been reasonably good but as I tired at the end of the length the arms had begun to drag though the water instead of clearing it. In any case if I hadn't been already disqualified I would certainly have been disqualified for missing the turn and making a small extra scull before touching

My first thought that was I should probably not enter any more medley events until I had managed to learn a proper stroke and that a sensible person (which I am not) would just say 'nuts to being a butternut' and concentrate on the strokes he or she could actually do.

But then, having studied the splits from my ill-starred effort, I noticed that, although very slow, it was actually the second fastest butterfly leg of the small handful of events I have swum, and the only one that was slightly faster than it was one where I had mixed fly kick and frog kick, so I began to think that maybe if I went back to the beginning and started to build the stroke from the bottom up or from the inside out, I might actually be successful and at least would enjoy the process because I really like some of the butterfly drills and I have plenty of instructional videos and books to study.

So today, the first day after my ignominious failure, I decided to start my practice with some gentle dolphin undulation with a small scull and a long glide and one thing led to another and the result was that that was more or less all I did the whole time. Interestingly it got a bit faster as I continued, although at no point could it be considered fast, and it was not in the least tiring and I could probably have continued for quite a long time if I hadn't had to go and have lunch and do some shopping.

Perhaps tomorrow I'll try to see how many lengths of single arm fly I can do in the time available, which is never more than 55 minutes on weekdays and usually less, depending on when I arrive at the pool. I have found,though, that the gap between single arm fly and whole stroke fly is a big one.

Perhaps instead I should try to reduce the amount of sculling and come closer to Charles's NAD.
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  #14  
Old 07-03-2013
craig.arnold@gmail.com craig.arnold@gmail.com is offline
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I admire you greatly Richard.

If you stick with it I'm sure the TI method will get you there.

I am informed by my daughter that she has been practicing the butterfly at school, so I shall have to break out the DVD and get her to watch it. :)

I haven't really done any butterfly for months. And in fact in my entire life have probably swum less distance than I do in a single week of my normal freestyle swimming.

For me there is no practical difference between Suzanne's 600 and a cross-channel swim. Both are so far beyond my present abilities that they are "magic". :)
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  #15  
Old 07-03-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Today I swam 1200 meters of sculling dolphin as a set of 48x25.
What is sculling dolphin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Perhaps instead I should try to reduce the amount of sculling and come closer to Charles's NAD.
If sculling dolphin is what I think it is, I'd say that the main difference between performing the NAD with more or less front support (sculling, breast pulling, etc) would be that doing the drill with less support will probably tax your neck as well as most structures involved in raising the head (to inhale). More support allows elevating the whole upper body little more, thus reducing the need to actually saying 'yes' with your head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig.arnold@gmail.com View Post
Congratulations Suzanne.

600 yards is impressive.

However, if you want something truly mind-boggling consider Julie Bradshaw who has done both the Channel and the Manhatten Island swim using the butterfly, and holds 19 world records.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature...&v=fQDuG-HxrS4
I swam with her in 2010, that is in the same lane. She was training in Loughborogh. Great woman, very kind.
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  #16  
Old 07-03-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi Charles

By sculling dolphin I mean basically fly kick (or undulation) with a small scull out front. Just enough scull to lift the head enough to breathe. It is very easy to go from this into breaststroke arms and fly legs, which is very pleasant to practise, but perhaps not so closely related to actual butterfly. The art of fitting the breath into the right place in the arm stroke eludes me at the moment. Perhaps lots of single-arm fly will be useful, experimenting with side breathing and front breathing.
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  #17  
Old 07-04-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Great idea. Simply alternate a length of single arm followed by a length of sculling NAD over and over. Because that would be the purpose here, bringing timing to the undulation/sculling.
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  #18  
Old 07-04-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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I am seriously considering doing only fly drills for the rest of this year, but perhaps I ought to do a little backstroke as well, possibly with an inverted dolphin kick, which is something I am not very good at, and that's a serious understatement.

I suspect that my breaststroke and front crawl would not suffer greatly and might even improve.
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  #19  
Old 08-01-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Well, it depends. Your neck etc should decide. Whilst it's true that for instance fly connects well with crawl, the fact remains that training for fly is more taxing...
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  #20  
Old 08-01-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi Charles

I have now completed the first month of my proposed all fly or all fly-related drills and am finding it very entertaining and interesting. I am doing the following drills:

NAD with sculling (varying from minimal scull - just enough to raise head to breathe to almost full breaststroke pull with occasional attempts at completely still arms and using the hip action to raise the head)

Single arm drills, ranging from alternating arms ( more or less what some call butterfree) 3 right 3 left, 4 right 4 left etc., and 25 m right 25 m left etc.)

Three sculls one pull, making about four full strokes (non-breathing for the moment) per 25 m length

Two sculls one pull., making about six full strokes per 25 m

When I improve at these I may try some one scull one pull drills, especially if I can manage to do some satisfactory breathing strokes..

I have started my second month with the plan to add some slow freestyle as warm down and that promises to be very interesting and entertaining as well.

I think I have to be very careful about the dolphin on the back because I have somehow slightly strained a tendon or tendons in my left leg and the tendons and muscles don't seem to like the inverted kick or undulation. The face down undulation doesn't seem to bother them at all. Strange that, but the body is strange.
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