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  #21  
Old 03-12-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hello again Grant

Having been DQ'd again in the 200 IM at the weekend for my failure to get the arms cleanly over the water, I have decided to put in some serious work on Charles's NAD and vertical pulling, as well as all the other butterfly related drills I do. I also intend to do lots of sculling, which I expect will improve all strokes.
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  #22  
Old 03-16-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Oh is that true Richard?

They heartless officials suck sometimes...

Yeah, learn the verticle fly, it's an awesome drill.

I believe that the reason why your arms aren't correctly clearing outside o2 is that you (like most) carry a dead spot in the front. Second kick is therefore issued way too early (in relation to arm pull). So you end up out of synch at the back of the stroke.

I have a guy that did 6:14 at 400m fly NAD. I *knew* that thing was fast LOL
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  #23  
Old 03-16-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi Charles

Yes these judges are merciless. I mean, it's actually disadvantageous to drag the arms through the water, but, there you are, rules is rules.

As for first and second kick, I'm never quite sure which is which, and anyway I often, perhaps even usually, use three kicks: one to kick the arms out and two to move forward a bit while I prepare for the next heroic effort. I have to say that I don't move forward very much with my dolphin kick but I do actually move. I have experimented with a breaststroke kick and a mixture of breaststroke and dolphin, but somehow I like the dolphin better.

The vertical pull drill is still giving me trouble but I'm sure it will pay off in the end. Likewise the NAD, in which I have trouble getting my head out to breathe without a small scull, which means it isn't really NAD.

Today I had some strokes that felt almost like real butterfly, but not enough of them. I watched some lovely butterfly at the weekend and when it's done properly it is definitely a thing of beauty.

After the 400m IM, the 200 fly is the ultimate challenge, although I watched a lady swim 1500 meters fly last year, which impressed me considerably.

Possibly my lack of shoulder girdle flexibility and mid-section flexibility may condemn me to failure, but I think I'll give myself at least until my 80th birthday before throwing in the towel
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  #24  
Old 03-19-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
The vertical pull drill is still giving me trouble but I'm sure it will pay off in the end. Likewise the NAD, in which I have trouble getting my head out to breathe without a small scull, which means it isn't really NAD.
Euhhhh.. I wouldn't say this. In fact NAD works best with a slight sculling action. Sculling isn't something that I would prevent anyone to do in most of my works (Freestyle NAD, Fly NAD, even Single Arm drill).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnxvdnu3Bn0

In fact, there's a full story related to this drill. I once wondered if this way of moving through the water could/should be use whilst performing an actual race.

I'll make a long story short. The case when as high as up to FINA World. I got a first ruling in favor of my proposal. Somewhere in 2010, that stroke was swam in a sub 3min winning 200bf performance. I got DQed on the spot, then got the official to read the ruling sent by FINA world (by email), they removed the DQed and where therefore informed for the first time that the Kicking Portion (first 15m) could indeed be done at the surface, with the swimmer breathing along the process!

So for this 200m bf, I did no more than 80m of full stroke, and 120m of NAD stroke.

Unfortunately, the case got further discussed, and we received another ruling in disfavor of this stroke.

Sad, because my main purpose was to allow people of all ages to register to any fly event. 10m out of 25 with 15m of rest (NADing) would have been a nice breath of fresh air.

All that to say that my biggest preoccupation at this race was to NOT perform any sculling at all. And admittedly, it ain't easy!
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  #25  
Old 03-19-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Charles

Interesting that you received a ruling against the NAD. According to my interpretation of the FINA butterfly rules, in principle one could do just one stroke of full butterfly for each length and the rest could be NAD, but obviously without any sculling, which would be considered an arm stroke and thus would infringe the rule that the arms must be recovered over the water. Perhaps one could avoid disqualification by only taking a stroke when it was necessary to breathe.

I understand that the drill where you do four kicks to one arm stroke is legal in competition, but I've never seen anyone do it. The rules do not specify any particular number of kicks, so logically one stroke every five, six, seven kicks etc. should be OK.

Perhaps after enough NAD and vertical pulling it would suddenly be easy to swim proper fly. I shall devote the rest of this year to trying to prove that that is so.
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