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  #61  
Old 12-18-2011
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Default Seamless Breath

Still working on that seamless breathing. It has gotten so much better, although I still maintain this terrible ingrained habit of breath holding at times. Especially when I am intensely focused on picking up tempo and or another aspect of the stroke.

Normal relaxed whole stroke does not seem to be an issue other than timing.


Always nice to hear others who are obviously better versed than I also have issues with the most basic of all issues.

Like without air DA

Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #62  
Old 06-27-2012
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atreides View Post
Well two things have helped me. Terry's new video explains the weight shift and the compact recovery so that I understand what to do. The neat thing about it is that he explains how to recover and almost guarantee a good catch. A good catch and proper weight shift means more foreward propulsion with less energy used. This means I can slow my stroke cycle down but still generate enough momentum so I that I don't think I'm sinking. Plus since I'm not stroking at 100 mph, I can work on the relaxation thing.
Could you provide a link to that video atreides?

Last edited by Talvi : 06-28-2012 at 12:18 PM.
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  #63  
Old 06-28-2012
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Default Is this the cycle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atreides View Post
Just this morning I was swimming a lap when I noticed that if I would catch and hold (go vertical with my forearm but slow down with any pulling motion) then kick and rotate at the same time my arms still moved like I was pulling but I really wasn't "pulling".
I think Atreides hasn't visited here for some time but I'd love to find out some more detail on what he wrote above. I think I get what he means but can anyone describe the cycle he's describing in a bit more detail. I'm unfamiliar with the terms etc.

What I am imagining is that his leading arm goes down to the most vertical it gets befor he begins to pull ie that he "pulls" a little later (not pushing down on the surface). At the same time as he approaches this point he rotates and kicks and the trailing arm leaves the water. Is that it?
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  #64  
Old 07-06-2012
Dr Bob Dr Bob is offline
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Hi, I am a very fit 55yo-had similar problems with breathing while swimming. Very frustrating, despite running a 21:30 5k and cross-training--2 weeks ago struggled to swim 50 yds. Yesterday I was able to swim 1/3 mile in open water. Key was breathing as slow and easy as possible--I read a tip on this site, not to breathe harder than if walking at a brisk pace and no forced exhalations/inhalations(which I was clearly doing). Swam slowly, making an effort to slow my stoke and breathing rate down. Try this it works.
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  #65  
Old 07-07-2012
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Default take a cold shower?

I guess swimming in a pool is different to swimming in a lake but standing under a cold shower yesterday I noticed my breathing changing (feeling out of breath) in the same way it does when I swim. If I can't master breathing in a cold shower .... :)
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  #66  
Old 07-07-2012
mbruse mbruse is offline
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Default My breakthrough on breathing - how I did it

Hi -

I certainly know what you are going through. I've spent the last 3 summers following TI. I started watching Terry on Youtube, then bought the book, the disc, and picked out the pearls from this blog on whatever I needed, memorized every exercise, focused and spent many hours on form; however, I was still desperately out of breath.

My summer swims started in May '12 and I'm swimming every other day approximately. I went from four 25y laps and being completely exhausted to swimming 40 laps with no rest, then to 80 laps (in June), with just a 2 minute rest at 40 laps. I just did 40 laps in 22 minutes on Wednesday and felt great afterwards.

On the advice from this blog, I started my workouts at the end of the pool bobbing up and down, not swimming, just counting to 3 under water, then popping up, taking a relaxed breath, submerging. Repeated.

I did this bobbing exercise 30- 50 times each workout. Something about this trained by brain not to panic and relax in the water. I did it for about 3 or 4 workouts. Even used my tempo trainer to pace the exercise.

Then while swimming 25s I let go of all my thoughts about form and just focused on blowing all the air out of my lungs before my mouth exits the water. Watching very carefully for the undersurface of the water to predict when to breathe in.

I now spend most of my swimming, brain and thought time to breathing, and making sure I blow the air out so that it is almost a natural breath in timed perfectly with the surface of my mouth just coming out of the water, then submerge again. Kind of like a whale coming to the surface (yea, I'm hoovering around 200lbs so the whale is a good analogy :)).

I focus on having "one goggle out of the water, one goggle underwater" visual with the surface of the water splitting my nose -- which is very difficult indeed! I don't get it every time but that is what I'm trying to do.



The biggest different I see before and after this break through. I am no longer holding my breath underwater.

Some other observations now that I spend most of my time on breathing:

1. The under surface of the water is a brilliant and beautiful millisecond picture if I can catch it.
2. Sometimes I can see the bowwave.
3. The floating ropes and the tiles on the side of the pool or boring but a good way to know if I'm about to over rotate.
4. If I see the sky with both eyes, I've over rotated my neck and its going to be sore the next day.
5. There have been times I've actually breathed in water but my brain stopped it before it went to my lungs and I did not panic, just kept swimming and blew it out on the next breathe.
6. I play with different breathing patterns now. Sometimes it's every other stroke breath. Sometimes I go 25 with one side breathing every stroke, then return 25y doing the opposite side for symmetry.
7. Breathing every stroke slows me down compared to every other.
8. Two breaths to one side, with one to the other is my latest pattern which seems to give use up the air in my lungs nicely.
9. Another fun exercise I do is to swim on my back, water just up to my mouth, submerge while blowing out of my nose, just a few inches, then come back up again for air. Repeat. I do this at the end of my workouts. I'm amazed at how much more comfortable I am in the water as previously I would have choked on this one. I started swimming with nose plugs 3 years ago! This is a great way to see the undersurface of the water.
10. My lungs feel much more relaxed now in the water, and sometimes I can feel them acting as a fulcrum between my head and legs. You heard Terry talk about hand (head) up leads to feet down. I started to feel it with different breath levels and fullness. Something about C02 vs O2 buoyancy but not sure.

Anyways, hope this helps, it my way of putting back in, everything I've learned from this blog and Terry.

Good luck and may the water be smooth and joyful!
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  #67  
Old 09-06-2012
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Default ^_^

Wanted to say thanks for your post mbruse, and to ask about a couple of your exercises:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbruse View Post
I started my workouts at the end of the pool bobbing up and down, not swimming, just counting to 3 under water, then popping up, taking a relaxed breath, submerging.
I am assuming you breathe out underwater, as per the other posts, so wanted to ask if you have found it hard previously to breathe out underwater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbruse View Post
I focus on having "one goggle out of the water, one goggle underwater" visual with the surface of the water splitting my nose --
...
2. Sometimes I can see the bowwave.
As Dr Bob says people often say they've found the key for them has been to swim slowly, but it seems to me that if the surface of the water splits your nose and your head is horizontal then the water also splits your mouth, so you need the bow-wave to make the space for air but bow waves come from sufficient speed. I don't get how to square this circle. You didn't mention speed but do you or Dr Bob have any thoughts on this?

fwiw I've been wondering if my breathing out immediately on submerging means my lungs empty before they get the benefit of the air they've just grabbed. hen running I notice there are pauses at the end of each in-breath, and watching Youtube vids that the bubbles start after a pause rather than immediately and crescendo just before the mouth exits the water.


PS

On Lesson 1 of Perpetual Motion the waterline splits one of Terry's lenses not his nose (one lens out of water one lens under). Is the thing here that people are at different levels of ability/technique so for one person with good technique a slow stroke rate still produces speed for the bow wave and allows less roll... but is less roll the goal?

Last edited by Talvi : 09-06-2012 at 12:10 PM. Reason: The waterline on Terry's googles splits one lens
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  #68  
Old 09-06-2012
tritri tritri is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talvi View Post
As Dr Bob says people often say they've found the key for them has been to swim slowly, but it seems to me that if the surface of the water splits your nose and your head is horizontal then the water also splits your mouth, so you need the bow-wave to make the space for air but bow waves come from sufficient speed. I don't get how to square this circle. You didn't mention speed but do you or Dr Bob have any thoughts on this?
I find it easier to breathe when I go faster, because of the bow wave and because I sink less. I don't know about other swimmers, but at slow speeds I get a bit of water in the lower part of my mouth when breathing with only one goggle out. It took a long time for my brain to accept it was OK and I was not going to drown. I know some swimmers do a Popeye and only open half their mouths. For me, I know breathing improved after I practiced with a snorkel (I really hate it) and went swimming in choppy waves, after that getting a bit of water in my mouth in a pool didn't seem so terrible after all :)
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  #69  
Old 09-28-2013
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Default Revisiting

Coming back and re-reading what I wrote, I have to ad that I finally get what mbruse wrote!!

A few days ago I was trying to sort something by moving my arms with no force and just "tracing" their movements. This led to going very slow and turning very slowly. There was little effort in the stroke and no panicand as I rolled very easily towards the surface the Popeye breathing just happened on its own! It's amazing how small the opening needs to be to get air - think of a whale and its blow-hole!

There's no need for a bow wave to breath, and the one goggle under experience is amazing. I found myself never "emerging" from the water at all.

When your eyes see two different views your brain automatically chooses which one is most useful, so, as the goggle above the water is just seeing suface glare and splash, the one underwater trumps it. Just - go - slower. It works for me every time :)
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  #70  
Old 06-19-2015
segressel54 segressel54 is offline
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Default Running out of breath

Robedon,
I TOTALLY am where you are! It is so frustrating isn't it? I too have "hit the wall" on this running out of air thing. I am 54 and can run 13.1 miles and control my O2 intake and CO2 output...but put me in a pool and ask me to swim over 50 meters and forget it. :-\ It's demoralizing.

This morning I focused on breathing out under water, only breathing in out of the water, rolling to the breath, relaxing as I stroked, stretched out for each stroke, and slowed-things-down. I still ran out of breath.

I have read about the clenching jaw problem and the shape of the mouth...all things I intend to practice. I will try anything! I have a sprint triathlon in Sept and my last one I did (my first, 2 years ago) was aweful on the swimming part of it. I side-stroked the whole time. I vowed I would do free style this time or I wouldn't participate.

I am very interested in this thread as I feel it applies to my problem too. I need to find the answer as well because today I was even wondering if there was a heart problem that was preventing me from getting oxygen when my heart rate went up. I am desperate for an answer. Thanks for your post.
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